Remembering the Precious Moments

What happens when we lose our spouse unexpectedly? Why does it seem that sometimes, when it rains, it pours? How does a person recover when she’s facing trauma after trauma?

Jenny Muscatell dealt with a faith-stretching kind of growth in 2013. In April her mother died. Two months later, her husband died unexpectedly of a heart attack at the age of 38. A few months later, her daughter, who had already had 6 open-heart surgeries, suffered a substantial decline requiring surgery number 7 which unfortunately failed, only to be followed by surgery number 8. 

It rained, and it poured, in the way storms often do. But that was the year Jenny learned to pick up the pieces she didn’t know could even be broken. It was the year she clung to a raw dependence on God. It was the year she found hope in the dark places. 

Jenny is a seasoned social worker, an author, and today she’s going to talk to us about The Legacy Project and how people can use writing to help them deal with life, death, and trauma.

Here are some links to Jenny Muscatell's websites:

Jenny's website:  https://www.jennymuscatell.com/
The Legacy Project: https://www.moscatellis.com/
Jenny's book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/Journey-Faith-Open-Heart-ebook/dp/B07ZS3HYC9
The Heart Community Collection (cooperative bookstore): https://heartcollection.wixsite.com/bookstore

Links to “Bereaved But Still Me” Social Media and Podcast Pages:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bereaved-but-still-me/id1333229173

Spreaker: https://www.spreaker.com/show/heart-to-heart-with-michael 

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HugPodcastNetwork 
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGPKwIU5M_YOxvtWepFR5Zw 

Website: https://www.hug-podcastnetwork.com/

If you enjoy this program and would like to be a Patron, please check out our Patreon page: https://www.patreon.com/HeartToHeart

Transcript

Jenny Muscatell: 0:00

When I meet with somebody, I am able to really just dissect every sense that they're feeling when they're going through these memories. It allows them to be part of their healing process not only for them, but for the people that they leave behind.

Michael Liben: 0:22

What happens when we lose our spouse unexpectedly? Why does it seem that sometimes when it rains, it pours? How does the person recover when she's facing trauma after trauma. Welcome friends to the fifth season of "Bereaved But Still Me", the podcast formerly known as "Heart to Heart with Michael". Our purpose is to empower the members of our community. Today's show is remembering the precious moments. Our guest is Jenny Muscatell. Jenny Muscatell dealt with a faith stretching kind of growth in 2013. In April, her mother died, two months later, her husband died unexpectedly of a heart attack at the age of 38. A few months later, her daughter, who had already had six open heart surgeries, suffered a substantial decline requiring surgery number seven, which unfortunately failed, only to be followed by surgery number eight. It rained, and it poured in the way that storms often do. But that was the year that Jenny learned to pick up the pieces she didn't know could even be broken. It was the year she clung to a raw dependence on God. It was the year she found hope in dark places. Jenny is a seasoned social worker, and author. And today she's going to talk to us about The Legacy Project, and how people can use writing to help them deal with life, death, and trauma. Jenny, thanks for coming to "Bereaved But Still Me".

Jenny Muscatell: 1:39

Thank you so much for having me. It's an absolute pleasure to be here.

Michael Liben: 1:42

Thank you. Let's start with you telling us about your husband, Thale.

Jenny Muscatell: 1:45

Thale is, was and is, my high school sweetheart. He and I met early on in actually middle school. I always liked him because he was very quiet, very shy, and, to be honest, would blush every time I said his name. I really really got to know him over the course of our high school, we actually separated for a little while because he went on to the military or he was going to go on to the military but decided to go to work in another state instead. But fate reconnected us later on and together, we started our life. And we spent a lot of years raising our family and making plans for our future. And we never had any idea whatsoever that he was in poor health. So when he passed away, it was very unexpected.

Michael Liben: 2:39

I know that must have been a real shock. He was also the second domino after the loss of your mother. Most of us have trouble with only one loss like that. What was it like for you?

Jenny Muscatell: 2:49

Well, as you'd mentioned, in the beginning, it was definitely a season of when it rains, it pours. I think a lot of times in life, that's a common theme that people can have. And for me, it felt a little bit like not being able to come up for air. When we lost my mom, it was April, my husband and I had talked quite a bit about the impact that that had had on not only us, but our children. And we talked a lot about death, and "what if" and what if something were to happen. But I didn't expect in any way shape or form that we would be having those conversations two months prior to his untimely death.

Michael Liben: 3:33

I've been married for quite some time. And I think a lot of couples have these conversations from time to time. Did it seem somehow out of place?

Jenny Muscatell: 3:42

It's not something that we talked about on a regular basis. Even though I'm a social worker, I spend a lot of my career in the end of life field helping people on a regular basis prepare for end of life scenarios, be it working out their final details, what funeral homes they want to use, do they have their their advanced directives in place, what family do they want to help with which things those are conversations that I had had personally, in my career, day in and day out, but had not really had with my husband. So it was a little out of place for our normal topics that we would discuss, but not really out of place, given what we were experiencing. You know, when death hits close to home, when you lose someone you love it opens up an opportunity to talk about things that you wouldn't normally put on the plate to

Michael Liben: 4:40

Where I live, we have an expression, "the talk about. shoemaker's son goes shoeless". So you've had this kind of conversation professionally with I don't know how many people it's not new to you professionally, you understand all of the ins and outs of this. Were you any better prepared when it happened to you?

Jenny Muscatell: 4:59

Absolutely not.

Michael Liben: 5:01

That's what I said here.

Jenny Muscatell: 5:02

Yes, it was so different. And here I had spent my life, you know, with a bachelor's degree and some master's work as well and a lot of career experience helping people go through this very thing. And when I experienced this loss myself, I thought, "Oh my gosh, everything I ever learned doesn't feel applicable". And it's not that it wasn't applicable. But it was that it felt ill equipped, like there could be more or like, I was only scratching the surface in what I knew, or had experienced or was helping other people with and when Thale, died, I thought, "Oh, my gosh, this is a much bigger, deeper, gaping wound that I need to find my way out of. And I don't know if I have all the tools to do it".

Michael Liben: 5:53

Has that changed the way you work now with other people?

Jenny Muscatell: 5:55

It has and it hasn't changed the way that I do my work in my career. Within my career base, there's a role that I hold, and I have to stick to very strict professional guidelines and standards, and there's certain things I'm able to do and certain things I'm unable to do. But that being said, where there's the need to kind of go deeper with people and to really help them on a level that I can't do within the realm of my social work license, I started a program called The Legacy Project, which I use to really help people on a personal level and outside of work, to move forward in planning and supporting the grief process.

Michael Liben: 6:41

We're gonna get to The Legacy Project in just a little while. But before we do, can you share a precious memory with you and Thale?

Jenny Muscatell: 6:49

Oh, my gosh, could I share many, but one that comes to mind is when my kids were little, Thale was always the humorist one, the humorous one in our family, oh my gosh, this man had wit that I think got sprinkled on him when he was designed and taken away from everybody else, because he had so much of it. And he could always plan ahead a story or something to make things interesting or to keep people laughing. And so when my kids were little, we had gotten them one Christmas a Nancy Drew spy kit. If you were ever a little girl that got a weekly reader, you will know that this was the long sought after toy that people wanted for Christmas. The kids had Christmas Eve, put out cookies for Santa and they had Oreos on the plate as well as the milk and the the carrots for the reindeer. And that night, Santa came. So shall we say, but he didn't have the cookies waiting for him because Thale had eaten all the cookies. So...

Michael Liben: 8:00

Nancy Drew to the rescue!

Jenny Muscatell: 8:02

So that next morning not only had he eaten

Anna Jaworski: 8:03

You're listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If those cookies, but he had finished off the cookies from the package as well. So that morning, the girls got up and they realized, "Wait a minute. I don't think Santa would have gotten into the cupboard and eaten all the rest of the cookies". So they decide to get out Nancy Drew's kit, they have the whole place taped off like a crime scene. There's tape all over the place before you know it and he's denying. Not only is he denying but he's he's throwing shade and talking about Santa being a glutton and how the plates how the cookies on the plate weren't enough and that he had to go get them out of the cupboard to maintain his innocence. And meanwhile the you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on kids are on to him and before I know it my youngest has a pair of tweezers, a plastic baggie to put the evidence in so her evidence collection kit, a fingerprinting dusting going on and she pulls with her tweezers a crumb off of his shirt, lables it "the guilty sweater" and he was busted. our program. Please send an email to Michael Libin at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com that's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben: 9:52

Jenny, we were talking about Thale and the precious memory that you shared which I found just delicious. Let's talk now more about The Legacy Project and where it's

Jenny Muscatell: 10:01

So The Legacy Project is a such an a heartfelt going. program for me, I had always felt like in social work that there was something more that I wanted to do something to be part of what people were going through at a deeper level. And then after Thale's death, it became very clear what was missing. And so I started this project to really just help people who were going through either end of life themselves, or knew somebody who was to be able to put their feelings, their memories, their life into words. So I started working with some folks from my church. And there was one woman in particular that I kind of set the project in motion with, and she had a brainstem tumor that would eventually take her life. And she had so many stories to share. And one of the best parts about life is living it, it's sharing all the things that you've gotten to do throughout your time, it's it's passing on the wisdom that you've gained, it's talking about the memories that you have, and leaving those as a legacy for somebody that you're leaving behind. And what was really nice about sitting down and doing that with people, and collecting their stories is one, leave them with a very captive audience. When I meet with somebody, I am able to really just dissect every sense that they're feeling when they're going through these memories. It allows them to be part of their healing process, not only for them, but for the people that they leave behind. A lot of times when families are together, and they know that the end is imminent, they sit around and they share stories. But then when that person dies, they think, "Ah, I wish I had known this, I wish I had remembered to ask this". I also meet with a lot of people on a regular basis. And I've heard from the people who are near the end of their life, that they have that longing in their heart to have the same from the opposite direction. "I wish I could have told so and so this I don't I'm not going to get to see them again, before I pass away. I want to be able to tell A, B and C to you know, Bill, Bob, and Joe", you know. And so that process allows them to do that and it's such a gift for them and for the people who receive their legacy.

Michael Liben: 12:39

I want to be clear on this. Are you writing this down? Are you making a video? What are you doing to preserve these stories.

Jenny Muscatell: 12:46

So I write them in book format, in a sense or journal format, I add them. I am a writer by nature. And so I collect these stories and put them onto pages in a vivid way that will help the reader, aka their their family or loved one that they're leaving behind, experience it as if they were looking through the teller's eyes.

Michael Liben: 13:12

Who can take part in this? What kind of people have you been working with?

Jenny Muscatell: 13:15

As of right now, I've worked primarily with people within the church, but it's really something that anybody can do or take part of. And the thing is, is, you know, you don't have to, it's something that anybody could do really, you know, if you know somebody that's lonely, and just near the end of their life, and you know, maybe they're far away from family, maybe their family lives in another state, and they don't have time to get together or share all the things they want to share. And somebody wants to go be that person, they can write those stories down, they can they can collect them, they can put them together as that person would wish and share them with the people they want them shared with. And that's kind of the neat thing about it. For me, I do have a website that I focused my Legacy Project on and it's called moscatellis.com, moscatellis.com. And that's where my Legacy Project information sits. I actually just put that up on that website for submission from the public. So if somebody wanted me specifically to be that person to write those, those memories down, then they would contact me that way. As I mentioned, it's something that really anybody can do to help somebody that they know

Michael Liben: 14:41

was popular a few years back was to find these people and to record their stories so that future generations could watch them and not only just read about it, but but hear their voices from the past. And then we would combine it with photographs of places they had been things that they owned. The truth is that now, filmmaking has been so democratized anybody, even with a phone, anyone can shoot high quality video. Editing software is freely available all over the internet. Anyone can do this. I think it's a great idea that you're out there asking people to submit the, you know, who wants help that you can do it for them or with them. And I think that's a great idea. What are your plans for the future? Is this going to grow into something larger?

Jenny Muscatell: 15:29

Well, actually, one of the things that's going on right now is one of my first legacy project. Writers I should say, because it is her story, we are going to be turning her story into an actual book that will be released later on, we're still working on the final details of that. It's an amazing story, what a story she has to share. And what an honor it has been to capture that for her in written word on on, I say paper, but I guess that shows my age.

Michael Liben: 16:04

Can we get a preview?

Jenny Muscatell: 16:07

Not yet. Happening soon.

Michael Liben: 16:10

You know, I love it when you do these projects. I spent the majority of my adult life as a filmmaker. And sometimes you get these projects where we put it on videotape. Again, that shows my age, we record them on video we so that when the family in the future will watch this, they will also see and hear the person which is has some value. We also see photographs mixed in with the things they're talking about places they've been things that they've acquired. It's all very lovely. And it's wonderful when every now and then something falls in your lap that you didn't expect that's that's book worthy. So you won't tease it for us now I get it, but I am excited to see what's coming.

Jenny Muscatell: 16:53

Now when it comes in, I can tease it, you'll be one of the first to know.

Michael Liben: 17:01

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website, heartsunitetheglobe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com for information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more. In addition to being a widow, and a social worker, you're an author. And in this segment, I'd like to talk about some of your writing projects. So before we get into that, tell us a little bit about your memoir, "The Journey of Faith and an Open

Jenny Muscatell: 17:54

"The Journey of Faith and an Open Heart" is my Heart". first published works. It's one that I wrote and started writing when my daughter was about two years old. She's now 25. So it was a work in progress about a 20 year work in progress. And You're documenting a 20 year journey. Do you feel, or is it what's neat about that is it was the story unfolding. And that was in part why it took so long to finish. And when we write about real life situations, the stories that we live, they carry on for a very long time. With that book, it's about my daughter, she was born with hypoplastic left heart syndrome and she had 8 open heart surgeries over the course of her life. And it was a long struggle during her senior year of high school, or at the start of it, was the year that my mom passed away and the year that my husband died. And it was following their deaths about six months later that my daughter needed her seventh and eighth open heart surgery. So it was a very trying year. And you know, as we talked about earlier, when it rains it pours It sure did. And I had felt that coming down all around. But I felt it was so important to, more than ever, to get those words and that story on paper. While it was raw while it was real. While it was- and believe me it continues to be real. But while it was fresh, so that other people who were experiencing the same thing could could at least hear my journey. And if nothing more, maybe it would give them comfort, hope, let them know that somebody else has maybe been there at least through part of what they might be going through. apparent, the changes that you must have gone through during those 20 years? Oh definitely. It was actually interesting, in writing the story. I looked at myself as a young mom, I had my daughter when I was 19 years old. And I look back as I'm writing from that point of view, and I think,"Oh my gosh, I was feisty for a young girl, but I had it together". So I think that like, wow, okay, I pulled off more than I ever thought I would have or could have. But that's, that's life, I think. And, you know, we often think I can't do this, and I can't do that. And there's just no way it's possible, especially when we're going through the storms. But there's a look back period that makes you go, "Oh, my gosh, I don't know how but I did it". And so that that definitely came up when I was looking back at some of those those younger years.

Michael Liben: 20:46

Well, I think one of the realizations I had when my daughter was born with her heart difficulties, I think one of the first things I realized is, you know, I'm either going to fail at this miserably, or I'm going to have to come through and of course, you come through because you're a parent, that's your job. But I also felt immediately, this is going to show me or this is already showing me what I'm capable of, in ways that I never thought of before. And I think that's very empowering. When you share that story with people who are just beginning, it gives them a little bit of light at the end of that first part of the tunnel that I'm going to get through this because I have to, and therefore I will, and I will along the way learn about my strengths. And that's very, very empowering. So it's a wonderful thing that you've done with that that journal, I think many of us have tried or thought about doing it and not as many reached the end of that with the journal intact. I appreciate that you've done that.

Jenny Muscatell: 21:42

Thank you. I understand and agree what you're with what you're saying in that regard. And you know, the other part of that is to is, when you're going through an illness of a child, when you're going through a death that you're experiencing, one of the things that comes up often is finding people to relate to, not being able to be or not feeling like you can be honest about what it is you are going through, you know? People will see you in the grocery store, they'll see you at church, they'll see you at work, and they'll say, "How are you doing?" And they care, and they mean well, they do, what your answer is often shaded over: "You know, I've had good days, I've had bad days. I'm hanging in there" because you don't know what to say.

Michael Liben: 22:30

Well, see Jenny, you've given them the wrong answer. They ask you how you're doing because they - "I'm just great. How are you?"

Jenny Muscatell: 22:38

Well, I mean, if I had to go backwards, the one thing that I always tell people that I would have done differently was have given the honest answer, I would have said, "You know what, I've been up since three in the morning and I can't sleep and mu guts hurt, and I can't eat. And you know, it's awful. And I'm doing the best I can and I don't know how I'm doing it. But I'm here". And and I would have through that answer been able to see who could be comfortable with that answer.

Michael Liben: 23:07

Yeah, you'd find that your friends are pretty quick.

Jenny Muscatell: 23:10

And who's not so comfortable with it. It doesn't mean that they're not, that they don't care, just some people are able to meet you in your discomfort and some people aren't and when you go through these struggles, you really have to surround yourself with people who can be comfortable in your discomfort.

Michael Liben: 23:29

Yeah, that's true. It's true. You really, you need to find your friends quickly. So what else what else you're working on right now what's going on?

Jenny Muscatell: 23:37

I'm working on another book called "The Dying Love". And it's almost a prequel in a sense to life before everything that, you know happened with "The Journey of Faith and an Open Heart". So I talk a lot about the loss of my husband in that one on a different more emotional slash romantic level, and about life before all the trauma. And it's got kind of a neat twist at the end. I'll leave that for you. Yeah, so that's an upcoming project.

Michael Liben: 24:18

Jenny's coming back at least once. As we're reaching the end here, what have you learned over the years and living with so much loss and how writing has played a role in your post traumatic growth?

Jenny Muscatell: 24:30

Over the years, I think, one of the things that I've learned the most about loss, and there are many, but the one that I would focus in on today is that you're not alone. And I know Anna, host of "Heart to Heart" says that frequently. That's kind of her tagline and she talks about that, but it's really true. And you know if we can surround ourselves with other people people who have been through what we've been through, and it might not be exact, but we can relate because people relate over their struggles, people relate over what's real, people relate over what's deep, and what's true. And can they be hard conversations? Yes. Doesn't mean we always want to sit in heartache or sorrow. No, we like to have fun. We like to, you know, be distracted from it sometimes, too, you know, all things are helpful at different points. But, but it's, it's really important to be able to just connect with someone on that real level. You know, I mean, if I talk to you today, and I said, hey, guess what, I just bought a new car, and I just bought a new house, you'd say, "Yay! That's great!" and you'd probably be happy for me. But if I said to you, "Hey, this is what's going on in my day, and this is where I'm at, and these are the emotions I'm having". You can probably meet me where I'm at and say, "Gosh", and connect with me on a more personal level. So we do we do connect over our struggles. And if we can do that, we can also celebrate our triumphs and victories together.

Michael Liben: 26:14

I think so. I think it's one of the most important things that we can learn from loss is that there is a continuation, that things do somehow work themselves into something malleable enough, that's normal enough, that we can take with us and and proceed, and go ahead. And sometimes I think people expect us to be permanently upset or permanently sad. And we're not. We have our moments. But we learn to get through and we learn to get through and it's okay to smile. I think that's probably one of the biggest lessons - it's okay to smile. It's even okay to be okay.

Jenny Muscatell: 26:50

Absolutely.

Michael Liben: 26:51

Jenny, I want to thank you so much for being with us. You have been a delightful guest on so many levels. It is clear to me that we'll be together again, on more programs, we have so much more to talk about, things that we haven't even touched or scratched the surface of and I hope you'll join us again, please.

Jenny Muscatell: 27:09

Absolute love to, it's been my privilege to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Michael Liben: 27:14

Thank you. And that concludes this episode of"Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank Jenny Muscatell for sharing her books, her projects, her experiences, and everything with us. Please join us at the beginning of the month for a brand new podcast. I'll talk with you soon and until then, please remember, moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski: 27:34

Thank you for joining us. We hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" is a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month.You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".