The Selfish Griever on Messages from Loved Ones

When we grieve the loss of a loved one, we try our best to keep them with us, to hold them close in our hearts and to tell their stories to others. But can our loved ones reach out to us? Can we open our minds and our hearts to the possibility that they somehow need us as much as we still need them? Can they comfort us in our time of need?

Whitney Samorano is the mom of twin boys, Orion and Maverick who were born in 2017. In 2020, when the boys were two-and-a-half, Orion drowned in the middle of the night in his grandmother’s pool during a visit. Whitney and her husband eventually divorced, but they remain supportive of each other and are great friends. Whitney developed a podcast, The Selfish Griever, to share her experiences with her grief and to support others. Whitney’s passion is to let others know they are not alone or judged in their grief and in the ways they choose to remember their loved ones and keep their memory alive.

Links mentioned on this episode:

www.theselfishgriever.com
Instagram @theselfishgriever

Links to “Bereaved But Still Me” Social Media and Podcast Pages:

Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bereaved-but-still-me/id1333229173
Spreaker: https://www.spreaker.com/show/heart-to-heart-with-michael

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HugPodcastNetwork
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGPKwIU5M_YOxvtWepFR5Zw
Website: https://www.hug-podcastnetwork.com/

Transcript

Whitney Samorono: 0:00

It was incredible. And I've never, ever seen that before. And it was while we were in the backyard. Maverick was swimming in the pool, we were all spending time together. And I really believe that was Orion there too, telling us telling me, he was there enjoying all of that time

Nancy Jensen: 0:20

When we grieve the loss of a loved one, we try our with us. best to keep them with us to hold them close in our hearts, and to tell their stories to others. But can our loved ones reach out to us? Can we open our minds and our hearts to the possibility that they somehow need us as much as we still need them? Can they comfort us in our time of need? Welcome friends to the seventh season of "Bereaved But Still Me". Our purpose is to empower members of our community. Michael Liben is usually the host of our program and I'm the producer, but today we're switching places. I am Nancy Jensen, my daughter Jessica passed away from complications after having numerous congenital heart defects for over 20 years. And that loss is what has brought me here to be the host of the program. Here with us today is our guest Whitney Samorano. Whitney is the mom of two boys, Orion and Maverick who were born in 2017. In 2020, when the boys were two and a half, Orion drowned in the middle of the night in his grandmother's pool during a visit. Whitney and her husband eventually divorced, but they remain supportive of each other and are great friends, Whitney developed a podcast,"The Selfish Griever", to share her experiences with her grief and to support others. Whitney's passion is to let others know they're not alone are judged in their grief and in the ways they choose to remember their loved one and to keep their memory alive. I'm so happy to have Whitney on our podcast that she and I have actually met in person. Thank you for joining us on "Bereaved But Still Me" Whitney.

Whitney Samorono: 1:59

Thank you for inviting me.

Nancy Jensen: 2:02

Let's start with you telling us about Orion.

Whitney Samorono: 2:06

Orion is my firstborn twin son. And people used to look at me funny when I would say that. But he was delivered 30 minutes ahead of his brother, so I always felt he solidly held the title of oldest brother. And he was this amazing source of light and joy. And when he was 18 months old, he was diagnosed with autism. But that wasn't him. That wasn't who he was, and all that I remember him for. And he was giggly and joyful. And he loved to be picked up and held. And he would walk up to complete strangers and raise his arms up, which is the universal signal for "pick me up" because he was nonverbal. And then when they would pick him up, he would cling on so tightly. He one time did that to a mom about a week before he passed away. And she looked at me and said, I don't even get this kind of love at my own home from my own kids. And that's who my son was. He was complete love and joy. And I really believe that's what his soul was here to do to bring that uninhibited kind of love to everybody that he met.

Nancy Jensen: 3:33

Oh, that's so sweet. I can just imagine him doing that. Can you tell us about how Orion passed?

Whitney Samorono: 3:39

It was in June 2020, which was the height of COVID. And the boys were all of us were going stir crazy being quarantined at home. So I thought it would be a good idea to go visit my mom because she had a pool. And I thought at least I could take the boys swimming twice a day and burn off some energy. So we went in and did that. And Orion loved swimming, Maverick liked swimming too but Orion was like a duck on water. I mean, he just was drawn to the pool. Every time you open the gate, he was immediately to the pool. And he did not understand the dangers of the pool. He had no fear. And I was of course terrified and had all these precautions in place. We installed childproof locks on doors and we had a doggie door but it had a door that you could close on it and we had this huge floor to ceiling wrought iron gate that blocked off the entire length of the patio from the yard where the pool was. And unfortunately, there just really is no way to guarantee in life that accidents will never happen. And one night when we all went to bed, and I thought Orion was asleep with his brother Maverick, and we had a baby monitor in the room, and my husband was there that weekend. And we were asleep in another bedroom that was also off the patio. And we never heard a thing. We didn't hear any noise in the bedroom. We didn't hear any noise on the patio. We went to bed about an hour after I thought Orion was asleep. And a little before midnight, I heard my mom's dog crying in her crate in another bedroom down the hall. And so I got up to let her out. And when I got to the back door to let her out onto the patio that then passes through to the backyard, I noticed that the lights were on in the boys' bedroom. And I remember thinking that's weird. I didn't leave it that way. And I couldn't find Orion anywhere. And Maverick was asleep, passed out in the bed, completely unaware of anything going on. And I frantically searched the house. And that's when I realized that when I'd open the door to let the dog out. I didn't mean to open the gate to the backyard. And I rushed back out there but Orion was already at the bottom of the pool. And there was there was nothing we could do at that point. And so the next morning was Father's Day. And we spent the morning calling family and friends to tell them that Orion died during the night.

Nancy Jensen: 7:02

I'm so sorry. That must have been so hard.

Whitney Samorono: 7:05

Yeah, it was.

Nancy Jensen: 7:09

I wish I could give you a real hug right now. It's alright. We get emotional on our podcast here.

Whitney Samorono: 7:19

I get emotional every day

Nancy Jensen: 7:25

Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Thank you for sharing that very difficult story with us. Has that made it really difficult for you to go to your mom's house?

Whitney Samorono: 7:37

Yeah, it really has. But I was just there recently. And it's a bittersweet feeling because it's the last place he was. I went swimming in the pool with Maverick over the weekend. And it was really a place that Orion loved and then he had so much joy and Maverick loves to swim. So it's just hard. It's hard to appreciate the memories, while also remembering the pain. And then when you try and put the pain aside, you start to wonder what kind of grieving mom does that make you when you can be laughing and joking and playing with your surviving son in the same pool where your other son died?

Nancy Jensen: 8:36

Well, what we've learned and what I've learned over the years is that you can hold grief and joy at the same time. And that it's okay to feel both. Yeah, that's a love that the love for one child, because I have three others does not get rid of the love that you have for the other.

Whitney Samorono: 9:00

Yeah.

Nancy Jensen: 9:01

So a loss of a child often challenges how a marriage works. Can you tell us about how losing Orion affected your marriage?

Whitney Samorono: 9:09

The loss of Orion first challenged me and who I was, I think about that, the title of your podcast:"Bereaved But Still Me". I didn't know who "me" was anymore. And I realized that I had spent the first 30 years of my life devoting so much of my energy towards trying to be who I thought I was supposed to be, who I thought society expected me to be. Who was the right kind of "me". And after Orion died, I didn't have anything left to put towards that. It took all my mental energy and focus just to make it through each day. And so about a year, a little over a year after Orion died, I just realized I didn't have anything in me to keep putting towards pretending that I was happy in my marriage, I didn't really think that his dad was happy in our marriage. And I finally admitted that to myself and to him, when I said I wanted a divorce. And now I spend that energy devoted towards finding out who "me" is, trying to be the authentic me, instead of this masked version that I used to think was acceptable to present to everybody else. And I really believe that myself and my ex husband are now better parents to Maverick that we each are now happier. And we're described by our friends as being the most married divorced couple you've ever met. Because after Orion died, all those things that I used to be so worried about just seemed petty, and unimportant. And for me, Maverick is the most important thing. And so, although there are things about my marriage, and myself and my ex that meant we weren't compatible, I recognize that he's still a great dad. And Maverick deserves to have a great family. And so that's what I put my focus on instead of whatever our differences were, or continue to be. And I think that that's really shaped by my grief and my perspective on life now that I wouldn't have been able to grasp before Orion died.

Anna Jaworski: 11:52

You're listening to "Bereaved But Still Me. If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. That's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Nancy Jensen: 12:31

Whitney, let's talk about therapy and the role therapy has played in your life since you lost Orion.

Whitney Samorono: 12:38

Well, I didn't have any prior experience with therapy before Orion's death. In fact, I would describe my family and my childhood as just get a stiff upper lip, you're fine, get over it. So when I realized that I was not fine, and I needed to find somebody who can help me, I struggled with finding the right services. I didn't know where to look, I didn't even really know what I was looking for. And I was uninformed, basically. And I ended up initially with a therapist who, in my opinion now was not qualified to counsel me and my grief and I think ethically should have declined me as a patient. But I'm sure that there's a whole list of reasons- maybe she was uninformed, or... I found her through my insurance so maybe she has obligations, you know, through that contract I'm unaware of. But ultimately, it ended up being a very poor fit. And I finally after, I think four sessions, realized that I didn't need to keep going back that just because she had a lot of letters after her name didn't mean that she knew how to help me. And that's probably the first time that I really advocated for myself on my grief journey.

Nancy Jensen: 14:04

Well, I commend you for being able to do that. It took me a while to to be able to do that.

Whitney Samorono: 14:09

For my grief I didn't know what was going on with me. I didn't understand a lot of symptoms that I was having, I didn't understand that it was you know, normal to not be able to remember my son sometimes to feel so disassociated, to have anxiety about being alone with my other son Maverick. I was eventually diagnosed with PTSD. So about the first year I didn't sleep, I would stay awake until I couldn't keep my eyes open anymore. And then I would sleep for about three hours, and then wake up again in like a startled awakeness and panic about what happened while I was sleeping. I was terrified that if I fell asleep that something was going to happen to Maverick. I wouldn't even lay down and get into bed. I would just basically sit on the couch until I fell asleep and then would wake up there again. Eventually, I stumbled onto a grief counselor through a local hospice and was able to work with her for about a year in one on one sessions. And she ended up being exactly what I needed because she herself had lost a child when he was 10 months old, about 20 years prior. So she was a bereaved mom, but she was definitely much further along in her grief journey so she was in a place where she was able to have the perspective to help me while still relating to what I was going through, and essentially commiserating, I think. And then eventually, after I worked with her for a very long time, I did finally do EMDR therapy, which is a specialty technique involving light and eye movement. And I only had to do those sessions for about four times of the EMDR, before my PTSD was greatly improved. And I stopped having the flashbacks, which the flashbacks would start, and then I would be unable to basically control my mind from following through with the whole sequence of events. So would start that I'd close my eyes and see Orion at the bottom of the pool. And I wouldn't be able to turn it off, I would go through the whole sequence of all the events. Yeah, every time. And I learned later on that your body doesn't understand time, it's just responding to whatever your mind is going through. So for me, until I did the EMDR therapy, my body was physically reliving Orion's death every single day. And it was just wreaking havoc on my whole system in ways that I didn't understand and couldn't control. And so it was really, it was really alarming for me.

Nancy Jensen: 17:08

It is terrifying. I wish I'd known about EMDR when Jessica passed away, because I had horrible PTSD, horrible flashbacks for a really long time. I'm really glad that you got to have that therapy so soon.

Whitney Samorono: 17:23

I don't know if it's commonly talked about, I remember that I found out about it, because I heard a dad, a grieving dad get interviewed who said that he did EMDR therapy, and then it really helped him. But I remember at the time, that it's a relatively new type of therapy. It's also still maybe it's getting better. But I remember feeling embarrassed to say that I was diagnosed with PTSD. I remember thinking that that's not for grieving moms, that's for soldiers who have been through combat. I had a hard time recognizing that the trauma of finding my son lifting his dead body out of the pool, like dealing with emergency personnel was as traumatic for me, as you know, a trained soldier going into combat.

Nancy Jensen: 18:15

Absolutely. Absolutely. What role has faith played in how you've dealt with Orion's death?

Whitney Samorono: 18:23

My faith has changed a lot. And I was raised religious, and I went to parochial school, our church every Sunday, and Sunday school, I grew up memorizing Bible verses. So I felt pretty secure, in my belief of heaven. I never questioned where we go when we die before Orion's death. But after his death, everything seemed really hollow, for me. It wasn't good enough anymore for heaven to be this place in the sky with clouds and, you know, cherubs playing harps. I needed to know more, I needed to know if my son was okay. And you know, when when they're two and you're so used to being responsible for every moment of their day. Then all of a sudden, they're not there and you're wondering, like, where did he go? And is he okay? And so I started reading every book I could find on near death experiences, on heaven. That led me to reading books about psychics and mediums and signs from deceased loved ones. And it was about three months after Orion's death that I realized Orion was sending me hummingbirds as his sign and the first time was at his wake, when a hummingbird showed up when I was standing outside the funeral home, talking with his dad and a friend, and this hummingbird had landed on this plant next to us that didn't have any flowers. There's really no reason why that hummingbird should have been attracted to this plant. And he sat there so long that my friend actually remarked on it saying he'd never seen a hummingbird sit there for so long. And actually, when you talk about the pool, and going back to my mom's house, you and I said we were just there recently, one night a hummingbird came and landed on my mom's... my mom has a fence with cable lines. And I timed it. This hummingbird sat there for 10 minutes with us not leaving, just sitting there, preening and then like looking around and then going back to some preening and for 10 solid minutes. It was incredible. And I've never, ever seen that before. And it was while we were in the backyard Maverick was swimming in the pool, we were all spending time together. And I really believe that was Orion there too, telling us, telling me, he was there enjoying all of that time with us.

Michael Liben: 21:18

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website heartsunitetheglobe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the hug Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com. For information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more.

Nancy Jensen: 21:54

One of the things that we've learned from doing this podcast for years is a term called Post Traumatic Growth, which is where someone has traumatic experience, but the person actually grows from the tragedy. It seems as though the trauma of losing Orion, you have found a way to find new meaning in your life. Can you tell me about how you came to the decision to start a podcast?

Whitney Samorono: 22:17

I changed so much after Orion died in that my spirituality and seeing the signs and meditating and feeling that continued connection became this huge part of my life. And at the same time, I was feeling really lonely. And the friends that I had at the time when I would share with them about the signs, would tell me that those weren't real, that it was the devil sending me signs cautioning me against idolizing my son above God. And it was terrible. It was so deflating. And also, I felt bad for them that they couldn't believe in anything bigger than dogma and religion. And so I started thinking, am I the only one? And can I find anybody else who believes in this stuff? So I started searching for community. And I did find an organization that was specific for grieving parents who were seeking that spiritual connection. And they were doing a conference and I really desperately wanted to attend. But when I found out about it, they were already sold out of tickets. And I was disappointed, but also, this was in March of 2022, and by that point in my life, I had accepted that I believe everything happens for a reason. And I don't say that flippantly because that statement includes the death of my son. But I believe that had he not died, had I not gone through this experience, I would not be the person that I am today. I wouldn't be the mom that I am today to Maverick. And so I just trusted that there was some reason that I wasn't supposed to be at that conference. And as time wore on, I kept thinking about another grieving mom who's just like me, who feels so lonely, who desperately misses their child but recognizes that they're getting signs in whatever form that is, and feels like they don't know anybody else who believes in this stuff and they feel kind of crazy, even admitting it out loud that they do. And I could not stop thinking about this mom. And then one day, I had this thought of what if I started a podcast where I talked about the signs that I got, and I found other parents who, grieving parents, who wanted to talk about the signs that they get, and share their stories so that that mom who maybe can't travel to a conference, who couldn't get a ticket, who doesn't want to read all the books that I want to read, can feel that community and not feel like they're alone. And can even do it anonymously. If they're not ready to admit to anybody else that they believe in this stuff, they can listen to the podcast in secret, and nobody ever has to know. So that's why I started "The Selfish Griever" podcast.

Nancy Jensen: 25:57

I love the term"the selfish griever", why is it called "The Selfish Griever"?

Whitney Samorono: 26:03

I was that I didn't care anymore what anybody else thought I was going to do whatever it was, that helped me the most on my grief journey. And I honestly believe that's what everybody who's grieving has to do, if you're gonna find a way to move forward, you have to put yourself first in what you need. And so that's "The Selfish Griever". Because I think everybody should feel safe and empowered to grieve, in whatever way best supports them. If that's believing in science like me, then, then that's amazing. And if that's not, if that's that, you know, you don't think that there's anything after death, because that's what supports you best, that's great, too. It's not about telling everybody what they should or shouldn't be doing or believing. It's about accepting everybody on their grief journey, wherever they're at.

Nancy Jensen: 27:10

That's awesome. I love, love, love, the name of your podcast, because it does seem selfish. But then after a while you realize I can be a better mom, I can be a better wife, a better mom to my surviving children, I can be a better wife, I can be a better friend, I can be a better me to give to others, if I am being selfish and taking care of myself and my grief.

Whitney Samorono: 27:35

And I think a grief journey is not something you can fake your way through. You can pretend but you're not actually healing or making any progress if you're just doing what everyone else tells you you should be doing if that's not what you feel like doing or what really resonates with you. You know, I want to take back the word selfish. I don't think it has to be a negative term anymore. And that's why I named it. Somebody told me once that they thought "The Selfish Griever" was a low vibration title for my podcast that I should change it. And in my opinion, being brave enough to be selfish is the highest vibration you could get. And if everybody was just trying to do that, to worry about what helped them most first then I think everyone would be able to help everyone else after that even more.

Nancy Jensen: 28:31

Absolutely. So there are quite a few podcasts for the grief community. Can you tell us how to find yours?

Whitney Samorono: 28:39

Yeah, the best way to find my podcast is to go to my website, theselfishgriever.com. Because there are so many platforms out there, it is available on I think pretty much any platform you can find. And there are embedded players on my website. So if you don't already have a podcast platform that you use, or you're not familiar with, how to listen to podcasts, you can just listen to it directly from my website.

Nancy Jensen: 29:05

And you've also been working with the support group, which is actually how I found you because I got a notification from a group that I didn't even belong to about an event and that's how I found you. And it was really great to meet you in person. So tell us about the support group.

Whitney Samorono: 29:26

Yes, so"Helping Parents Heal" is actually the organization that was putting on that conference that I had wanted to make it to and couldn't. And they were they do a lot of meetings over Zoom and are a great resource. They're actually international now. So that's amazing, but I always preferred in person meetings. And so I drove to Phoenix, which is about two hours from where I live, to get to go to one of their first in person meetings that they were hosting post COVID. And it was incredible to be in this room with other grieving parents who were also going through a lot but who really believed that their children were not gone. And were also seeking to continue that connection. And believe it or not, Nancy, they do a large group first with a speaker. And then they do did a small group breakout. And there were four parents in my small group, including me, and three of us were parents of twins who lost one twin, and the groups are randomly assigned. So that was the universe putting me exactly in the group that I needed to be in. And that's the kind of experiences I think that can happen when you meet in person that maybe are a little easier than when you're meeting over Zoom. So after that experience, I thought it would be so nice to get to go to a meeting in my own town, and not have to drive two hours every time. So I reached out asking about information for the local meetings. And it turned out there were none, because the person who had been coordinating them had had to stop. So they asked me if I'd be willing to start. And I agreed, and we're a much smaller group. So we just basically do small breakout groups where we get together and talk and share about signs that we received from our deceased children, or maybe struggles that we've been going through that month. We meet once a month in person. And I really enjoy it, and I'm looking forward to it growing more.

Nancy Jensen: 31:43

I went this last time and it was really wonderful to be with the others and spend time with you. I hope it continues to grow as well.

Whitney Samorono: 31:52

Yeah, thank you.

Nancy Jensen: 31:54

This concludes this episode of "Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank Whitney Samorono for sharing her experience and wisdom with us. Thanks, Whitney.

Whitney Samorono: 32:04

Thank you.

Nancy Jensen: 32:05

Please join us at the beginning of the month for brand new podcast. We'll talk to you soon and until then remember, moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski: 32:13

Thank you for joining us. We hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" has a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".