Bereaved But Still Me
Bereaved But Still Me
Grief to Love: A Blueprint for the Living
Silke Herwald worked for many years with the bereaved community but it went to a much deeper level when her only sister died of cancer. She supported her parents and brother-in-law through their loss and their shared grief brought them even closer together.
When COVID started, Australia shut its borders and she couldn’t get to Germany to spend with her parents for about 2 years. Then one morning she got a call nobody wants to get, that her father had died. She then applied for a travel exemption to be allowed to leave Australia to go on a flight to Germany to be there for her mother after her father passed away without warning.
Ten days before Silke’s father died, she had to put down her old, beautiful therapy dog – the mascot for her clinic. This dog had been able to intuitively determine when clients needed her near them to absorb their grief. Losing her was another tremendous loss for Silke.
Today’s episode is entitled: “Grief to Love: A Blueprint for the Living ” and our guest is Silke Herwald. Today we’ll be talking about the role the unconscious plays in our healing, how she created Grief to Love, and what the future holds for her.
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https://www.grieftolove.com/
https://www.facebook.com/australianhypnotherapycentre.com.au/
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I always thought that it was just so sad. If one life is lost to the death, but it's an absolute tragedy. When another life is lost to grief or depression or anxiety or alcohol or lethargy, or whatever it may be.
Michael Liben:Welcome friends to the Sixth Season of "Bereaved But Still Me". Our purpose is to empower members of our community. I am Michael Liben and the father of three children; Idan, Sapir, and Liel. Liel, my youngest daughter, was born with a heart defect and later she developed autism and epilepsy. Losing her at fifteen is what has brought me here to be the host of this program. Here with us today is our guest Silke Herwald. Silke worked for many years with the bereaved community, but it went to a much deeper level when her only sister died of cancer. She supported her parents and brother in law through their loss, and their shared grief brought them even closer together. When COVID started, Australia shut its borders and she couldn't get to Germany to spend time with her parents for about two years. Then one morning, she got the call that nobody wants to get - that her father had died. She applied for a travel exemption to be allowed to leave Australia to go to Germany to be with her mother after her father had passed away without warning. Ten days before Silke's father died, she had put down her old beautiful therapy dog, the mascot for her clinic. This dog had been able to intuitively determine when clients needed her near them to absorb their grief, losing her was yet another tremendous loss for Silke. Today's episode is entitled "Grief to Love - A Blueprint for the Living". And we'll be talking with Silke about the role the unconscious plays in our healing, how she created "Grief to Love", and what the future holds for her. Silke, thank you for joining us on "Bereaved But Still Me".
Silke Herwald:Thank you so much for having me. I love your program.
Michael Liben:Thank you so much. Let's start right away by talking about how you suffered three huge losses one after another, the loss of your sister, the loss of your father, and your therapy dog, who was kind of like a colleague. So tell us a little bit that whole period in your life?
Silke Herwald:Well, it was a pretty challenging time. And I had already specialized in working with the bereaved and making a difference to my grieving clients with a "Grief to Love" program. But when my sister died, it really hit me. Because all of a sudden, I had that insight of oh, this is what people mean when they say that they're in the fetal position on the floor, and they just can't get up. This is what grief actually feels like. And it just took my understanding of grief to a much deeper level. Then my old dog was just getting older and older and older. And she was such an integral part of the clinic and my work. And I realized that I actually had to retire her about half a year before she finally died. But I realized that in those last six months of her life, just with my sister who died of cancer, that I had already done so much grieving, while both of them were still alive. Because I knew that the inevitable was coming even though I don't didn't want it to be true. But then when COVID hit and I couldn't leave Australia, it was always like,"Ah, alright, it'll be Christmas, or by the New Year, I can come and see you or by spring, you guys can come over" and it never felt like it was going to be for two years. And then that phone call came early in the morning that my dad had passed away suddenly. And it was really weird because I had spoken to him 14 hours beforehand and we were joking and laughing on the phone. And for me, it actually gave me a great sense of comfort to know that he was so happy. When people asked him, you know, he always said, "Oh, look, one day, I just kind of like want to drop dead". That was always dream way to go. Well, he did. But I thought that one day was always going to be many, many years out into the future.
Michael Liben:There's a Jewish proverb there that somebody who dies quickly and in his sleep dies the death of a righteous person. And I think that's the universe sort of making easy work of it and not making somebody suffer who doesn't need to.
Silke Herwald:That's a lovely proverb. I love that. It was really it was an interesting challenging time, because of course, especially to happen in the middle of COVID. And when I flew to Germany to, when I got my travel exemption to fly out. And I went past exactly that spot where I huggged my dad for the last time not knowing that it was going to be the last time because they were here in Australia. And that was the last time I saw them. There's this escalator that goes down where you then head off and I just had that flash of being there with both my parents and hugging him. And I just had that complete memory of what it felt like that last hug that I didn't know what's going to be the last one. But it's also a really, really beautiful memory to have that now and to have that so present. So, yeah.
Michael Liben:I find it to be beautiful memories that sort of hang on and those are the ones we keep forever. So it's really nice to have that, really nice to have that early on, you get it and hold onto it.
Silke Herwald:Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Liben:You find that you now empathize deeper and stronger with your clients?
Silke Herwald:Yes, yeah, I don't think that anybody really can ever understand grief until it hits them. I think once once you've been in the front row at the funeral, you have a completely different understanding of what that actually is. Beforehand. I think it's, it's more of an intellectual understanding, and the head gets it. But then all of a sudden, you really get it. And that's what happened to me. And so yeah, I realized also how important it always is, is to go at my client's pace.
Michael Liben:How did you manage to deal with your own grief while supporting your parents and your brother in law in their grief? On one hand, you look at them as a therapist, on the other hand, you're all family, and it's also very close to you as well.
Silke Herwald:I knew from my own experience, that we all really need that support. And for me, I realized that I very much had to walk my own talk, because I always say to my clients, that thing about the oxygen masks on the plane, you have to put it on yourself first before attempting to put it on others. So I knew that from my work, that the "Grief to Love" processes really worked. But I also knew that I needed to have support in order to be able to help my loved ones. So I taught a dear friend of mine, who also is a fellow brilliant hypnotherapist these processes and how to run them and how to do them. And over the years, we've had many conversations about our work. And she had heard so many of my stories that I shared with her. And I think she knew that it was really important to only ever work on the things that the bereaved is ready to work on. And to go at their pace, to never rush it and to absolutely trust the client that they know what they need help with. And more often than not, it's not necessarily the grief in and of itself, it's more all the other stuff that actually gets in the way of the grieving. So it could be being disappointed with, I don't know, the medical system, or the anger towards something or a feeling of homesickness, or just all the other stuff that kind of comes out there, the anxiety, the overwhelm, not knowing what to do now, the lack of focus or stuff. So she knew all of that so I taught her how to support me basically.
Michael Liben:I like that the therapist gets a therapist who, yeah, actually, you actually had to train a therapist. That's a fascinating concept, because you don't think about that a therapist is someone you generally depend on, and just assume will always be there. But when the therapist needs help, there was a TV commercial years ago in the US for for medicine, I think it was cough medicine. So what do we do when mom gets sick?
Silke Herwald:Yes, yes. Exactly. She did that so, so beautifully. And she always asked me when she wasn't 100% sure. She was like, "Okay, how would you like me to help you with that? Show me". And then I'd talk her through it. And it gave me a beautiful inside experience of what I always had a sense that the processes were really gentle. But it really gave me that sense of where they work, what needed fine tuning. And after each session, I really had this sense of feeling like a little bit of weight had been lifted, or that I was able to breathe a little bit easier. And without her help, I don't think I could have ever supported my parents and my brother in law the way that that I was able to.
Michael Liben:That's lovely. How did COVID work on top of that as another inhibitor?
Silke Herwald:My sister died before COVID. But I just see so much in my clients that during COVID not being able to be with their loved ones not being allowed to go to the hospital, not having a real funeral, not being allowed to go to the nursing homes. I think it just added so much to that grief. And my sense is that the further we are removed from death, the more we actually grieve
Michael Liben:The further we are from death, the harder it is to grieve?
Silke Herwald:Yeah, because it seems unreal. So, it's harder -
Michael Liben:So you mean the physical distance of not being able to go to a funeral or not being able to visit somebody?
Silke Herwald:Yes, yeah. A that plus also for not having been there in their last days or not having been able to hold their hand. I find in my clients that there is a lot of guilt that they - beating themselves up, I should have been there. I know why I wasn't able to be there. So I shouldn't feel guilty about it. Yet I feel I left them alone. I feel I betrayed them. I feel we didn't have the funeral that my loved one wanted to have. And it just adds an extra layer to the grief.
Anna Jaworski:You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. That's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.
Michael Liben:So can you tell me what is "Grief to Love" program? What is it? How does it work? How did you get started on it?
Silke Herwald:"Grief to Love" is a program that I've developed where I work individually, one on one with clients all over the world, and also work with clients in groups also all over the world. And it's I think it's different to most grief models in that it works with the subconscious processes. So in grief, there's so much well meaning grief advice, but quite often the person might be hearing it. And they politely nod their head and say, "Oh, yeah, that sounds like a good idea" where everything inside them just screams "Hell no, I can't do this. No, no, no". And that voice on the inside, that's your subconscious process,
Michael Liben:Give me an example new good advice that you're inside doesn't want to accept, there's something there that I'm missing.
Silke Herwald:It could be that somebody says, "Oh, you know that the house is too big for you now that you're all alone, and you're can't do the garden anymore", and things like that. And the person logically knows that the house is too big, they're having a really hard time keeping up with all the work. But on the inside, they're going, "No, I don't want to move out. Because my late husband is in every corner, I can still see him sitting there in his chair and all of these things", for example. But of course, logically, they know that that will be the right thing to do. But their subconscious just doesn't want to do it. So all of those things that are objections, basically, where the unconscious goes, "I get that that would logically make sense. But I have a reason why not". Now, a lot of other programs would work more on the logical side of things. Whereas I'm far more interested in what are those subconscious objections. And because the subconscious is always trying to protect you, their subconscious, always trying to do the best for you. And of course, to the subconscious, it makes perfect logical sense, because you've already lost so much, you've already lost everything. So to the unconscious, anything that would look like you could potentially lose even more than what you already have lost the unconscious gonna dig its heel in and just gonna go, "No, I don't want that". And so that's why I prefer to work actually, with the subconscious processes. For example, the widow who doesn't want to move out of the house, then I would ask her subconscious," Okay, great. Good. So you don't want to move out. That's great. What's the intention behind staying in the house? And it might be "Well it's because I want to feel close to him". "Okay, great. Good. So and when you feel close to him, what would that do for you?" "It made me feel better"."Okay, great. So then if there was a way that would work as well as or even better than staying in the house to feel close to him, would you be willing to give that a go?" And then we let the subconscious come up with different ideas on how it can still feel that sense of connection. And all of us I don't, I have no opinion on staying in the house moving out whatever it is entirely up to my clients. But what I find is that when the subconscious has found a way to still feel what it wants to feel, to fulfill that positive intention, in this case to feel connected, and it's found a different way to achieve that, then it's very willing to come up with with other ideas.
Michael Liben:There's just so many ways that you can be close to somebody without being in the same surroundings.
Silke Herwald:Yes.
Michael Liben:I'm curious, do you think there's a certain fear of moving forward that if I make a change, then my loved one might not recognize me or my place? And I might lose that connection. Is that part of the thing?
Silke Herwald:Absolutely. It's huge. Because in my experience, most people who are grieving, they don't actually want to stop grieving, they don't necessarily want to move forward. Because it feels like their grief is the last thing that still connects them to the loved one. So what people really need is to feel connected in a different way, in a way where they feel that they actually always like, for example, going back to that widow example, she all of a sudden, a few sessions later said to me, "Ah, I've actually realized, I've got him in here" as her hand went to her heart."Always. He's always with me, anyway, he's everywhere I go". And all of a sudden, she said,"Oh, I've actually put the house on the market". And it was just like a fleeting comment, which was just beautiful, because she had that realization that her husband was always with her anyway, and that she now was living a life that was inspired by him. And that fear of moving forward. I think it's huge, but we can't go against that. We need to work with it.
Michael Liben:Right? So we need to wait till the client is ready to move forward. So what you can do with the subconscious is to enable it to let go a little bit so that the part that we know logically can have its way and move forward.
Silke Herwald:Yes, and no, I think it's more about letting go of the right things. People often misinterpret, letting go as in letting go of my loved one, letting go of the love, letting go of the memories, which is not that at all, it's letting go of the most painful parts of grief, so that you don't get stuck in it, which actually prevent you from having that closer connection, that sense of being able to take the loved one into the future with you
Michael Liben:To just say that, because I think what you're getting at, and correct me if I'm wrong, is that if we let go of the things that are holding us back, we are not, in fact losing that love. But we are experiencing it in a better, more healthy way. If we don't let go of certain things, the relationship that we want to have is in some way poisoned.
Silke Herwald:Absolutely. Yes, that is so true. Yes. It's like we get in our own way. It's almost that the most painful parts of grief, get actually in the way of having that closeness that we want.
Michael Liben:Now, you say this is actually on the part of the subconscious a defense mechanism. But it seems to me that it's a defense mechanism that's doing the exact opposite.
Silke Herwald:Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You summed that up beautifully. It's because the subconscious is trying so hard to achieve this positive intention. But by doing so, it's just achieving the exact opposite, because it's the only way it knows how to enter the subconscious just seems logical. I just got to hang on to the last memories that I have, even though they're absolutely painful, but I'm just going to hang on to them. And because we're hanging on to them so tightly, we actually can't remember all of the other beautiful memories, all of the happy times that we had with that person. And once we do something with those and integrate them all into all of the other memories so that they become a memory surrounded by all the beautiful other memories. That's how we get that. Yeah, more sweet instead of bitter relationship.
Michael Liben:If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website heartsunitetheglobe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com For information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more. Silke, we know that you lost your therapy dog and that COVID has kind of changed everybody's working environment. So are you doing therapy now in person in Australia or have you opened up to a wider computer based therapy?
Silke Herwald:Yeah, I work online all over the world. I think what has changed really is that I've been working online for many many years. But what actually has changed with COVID is people's openness to doing this kind of work online. Whereas beforehand, I think they would have gone to somebody in their area. But because during COVID, nobody could see anybody in person anyway. So people were far more open to reaching out to whoever they found resonated with them the most. So yeah, it has, it's beautifully that it has opened a lot of people up to doing this work online.
Michael Liben:I guess the therapy dog then has less of a role, because, you know, there's the mediation of the computer that sort of blocks that from happening.
Silke Herwald:Yes
Michael Liben:But, but I agree with you. I think it's amazing that in very short order, we all learn how to do things differently. We all learned how to maintain some sort of human contact, just with our eyes and our ears just to sort of see people's faces and use that as a substitute. Not a good substitute, but a substitute for contact.
Silke Herwald:Yes, yeah, absolutely. And, and, you know, for me, people go into a trance like state every day staring at a screen.
Michael Liben:Right, so is that a lot like doing hypnosis on them?
Silke Herwald:Yeah, it's because I mean, I work with the subconscious processes and people, yeah, go into a trance every single day watching telly staring at their computer screen. So it kind of really works in my clients' favor that they're already used to it.
Michael Liben:And you do hypnotherapy on the computer?
Silke Herwald:Yes, yeah. Yeah.
Michael Liben:We need to try that sometime because I'm fascinated by the fact that you can do that. Love to. It's brilliant. Let's try that after the program, I think we'll see if that works.
Silke Herwald:Great
Michael Liben:You've recently been on Jordan Ferber's podcast. He's a friend of ours and he's been a guest with us and we like him very much. It seems as though you're making a huge effort to share your work everywhere with the world. So how does being on podcasts, how does that all work into itself? And how can people find you?
Silke Herwald:I loved being on Jordan's podcast, that was brilliant. And the thing for me was when I spoke at the 2019 AJ World Conference, there was an international audience of psychiatrists, hypnotherapist grief, counselor, psychologist, and I realized how many other therapists don't really understand how subconscious processes work in grief. And a lot of other therapists are also apprehensive of the big emotions that come out when we work with the bereaved. And that there are still a lot of outdated grief models around that just don't really work so much for most people, I think, because I know just how difficult grief really is. And I always thought that it was just so sad. If one life is lost to the death, but it's an absolute tragedy, when another life is lost to grief, or depression, or anxiety, or alcohol, or lethargy, or whatever it may be. So I decided that I really wanted to share this work, not only with my clients, but also with other therapists so that they can help their bereaved clients in a more profound way. The other element that comes into it is that my sister loved life, she was just one of the most happy, positive human beings ever. And she'd hated for us to not be enjoying life and I think she would just not appreciate anyone getting so terribly stuck in their grief. I kind of almost feel like I owed a bit to her, to help other people be able to live a meaningful life, even though they have lost their most important person in their life. But that it is not an either or- either you grieve or you live a meaningful life, but that we allow the grief to change us and the loss to change us. And that loss becomes part of who we are now. And then we take that out into the future. And we can still live a life where we still enjoy life, and we still have meaning in life, and the deceased person is still part of us. So I'm just really hoping that by letting more people know that it is possible to live life in a meaningful way. There's also also hope, I think in that, and that hope is so important when people are really in the deep throes of grief and it feels like it's never going to get better and that there is hope things will change and it is possible for you to enjoy and live a meaningful life again.
Michael Liben:I agree with you totally. I think change is inevitable. But I was curious, you said something very interesting, you said that you thought that maybe this had become something you could do to honor your sister's memory. And I totally get that because it's very clear to anybody who knows me that we do this podcast, in no small measure, for my daughter's memory. And I'm thinking, that's a really good idea. Maybe that's something we need to all learn is how to take something that we're already doing or something we're interested in doing - something we'd like to do, and take it on in that person's memory and carry through and that's another way that we can sort of work ourselves through our grief and into a more forward looking life.
Silke Herwald:Yes, yeah, absolutely. We don't all have to become grief specialists or whatever. But, for example, my dad was a project manager and engineer, and he was always incredibly organized. And he would always send me spreadsheets about anything, and make spreadsheets about everything. And it was driving the whole family a bit around the bends. But of course, once he had passed away, I realized the power of a good spreadsheet, because all of a sudden, I was in Germany, and of course, you have all these insurance companies and bloody blah, all these different people that you kind of need to deal with. And I found myself in true dad style, making a spreadsheet about whoever contacted, who still needed to be contacted, who was I waiting for a response from and so on, and so forth. And I just kind of had this huge smile, just kind of thought I he'd be so proud of me now sitting here with with a spreadsheet.
Michael Liben:Absolutely. And I hasten to point out, there's a message there for our producer. If there was one tip that we could take away from this to improve our lives, when dealing with grief, what would that one tip be? Give us something that
Silke Herwald:You know yourself the best. Trust yourself. And we can all take away. when you've got that internal voice saying something, "No, I don't want to" pay attention to it. Ask it, what does it really want. So I was I was working with an online client the other day, and after her dad had died, she'd put on a lot of weight. And one day, her husband had lovingly asked her how he could support her in her grief and also because she hated that she was putting all this weight on. And she said to him, "I feel I have this hole in me that I just can't fill ever since dad died". And then and she'd found me through another podcast. And she said that after the few sessions with me, she said, she got that craving again to eat something. And she just leaned into it, as I told her to do, and she just asked, "Okay, so yes, you're telling me that you want this chocolate? But what is really going on? What do you really want?" And it's as if her subconscious said, "I just want to be sad". And she said,"Okay", and she actually gave herself permission to be sad. And she gave herself that permission to cry. And she said she cried for about half an hour. And she said beforehand, she always pushed those feelings down. But through the work that we'd done, she felt that it was okay to just lean into that sadness. And then she said she cried for half an hour. And then she said, "Okay, good that that was that. And it's okay". And then she got on with it again.
Michael Liben:So if I'm feeling like I need to do something, which is not good for me, okay, in her case, it would be eating. But I feel that there's something I need to do. What it turns out that my subconscious is telling me, this makes me essentially sad. And that's really why I'm doing it. I want to be sad. So now I can find another way to be sad, I can let it out. I can cry. And then I can sort of get myself back together again.
Silke Herwald:Yeah, absolutely.
Michael Liben:That's a difficult thing, I think, for a lot of people to face, which is why we need therapists in the world. Because for me to say it is nice, but for me to believe it. I need the help of somebody like you and I think a lot of people do. And I'm really glad that you found a way to get out into the world.
Silke Herwald:Yeah, thank you. I love sharing what I do. And for me, the sense I get when I can sense relief in my clients and I can see them breathe a little bit easier, or they literally look like a little bit of weight has been lifted off them. That is, yeah, it's just such a wonderful feeling.
Michael Liben:Silke, how can people find you if they need you? And I know people need you. How do we contact you and start working with you?
Silke Herwald:The easiest way is to just go to my website, which is grieftolove.com. And there you'll find all the contact informations. And I also have got a little tool there on how you can assess where you are on your grieving journey, so that you don't get stuck in the most painful parts of grief. And it's just a little grief pathway so you know what to expect, you can download that and it only takes two or three minutes to go through it. But it'll give you a really clear idea of where you are, what to expect and so on and so forth. And then you also get more of what I have shared on this podcast and um can reread those those things again.
Michael Liben:Well, Silke, I'd like to thank you so much for joining us on "Bereaved But Still Me". It's been, it's been not just a pleasure, I feel smarter.
Silke Herwald:Thank you that's a kind thing to say.
Michael Liben:I hope many of them, I feel smarter now than I was 30 minutes ago. So thank you for that.
Silke Herwald:Thank you so much for having me was a true pleasure.
Michael Liben:And that concludes this episode of"Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank Silke Herwald for sharing her experience and her wisdom with us. Please join us at the beginning of the month for a brand new podcast. I'll talk with you soon. But please remember, moving forward is not moving away.
Anna Jaworski:Thank you for joining us. We hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved but Still Me" is a monthly podcast, and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".