Comfort During the Holidays for Bereaved Parents

This is the holiday season, usually a time when most people celebrate and find joy but for some of us who are bereaved, it’s difficult for us to experience joy especially when we see everyone around us in such a joyful mood. Our program today is called “Comfort During the Holidays for Bereaved Parents” and our Guest is Julia Wagner.

Julia Wagner is the mother of six children, the oldest of whom died suddenly and unexpectedly after an unforeseeable accident at home.  At the time, Lizy was just two weeks shy of her 13th birthday, which added an extra layer of poignancy to her loss. 

Not only did Julia and her husband have to learn to handle their own grief, but how to tenderly guide their remaining five children through the process of coping with their loss as a family and as individuals.  

Lizy’s parents have focused on remembering her with joy and preserving her place in their family by creating new traditions in her name, as well as maintaining old ones the family cherishes.

Loyal Listeners might remember Julia from Season 2 when her episode was entitled, “Grieving with Grace.”

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Transcript

Julia Wagner: 0:00

We know that reaching out to other people and doing kind things and putting them in her stocking would be something that she would fully love and approve of.

Michael Liben: 0:18

Welcome to the sixth season of "Bereaved But Still Me". Our purpose is to empower members of our community. I'm Michael Liben, and the father of three children- Idan, Sapir, and Liel. Liel, my youngest daughter, was born with a heart defect, and later she developed autism and epilepsy. Losing Liel at fifteen is what brought me here to be the host of this program. This is the holiday season, usually a time when most people celebrate and find joy. But for some of us who are bereaved, it's difficult for us to experience joy, especially when we see everyone around us in such a joyful mood. Our program today is called"Comfort During the Holidays for Bereaved Parents", and our guest is Julia Wagner. Julia Wagner is the mother of six children, the oldest of whom died suddenly and unexpectedly after an unforeseeable accident at home. At the time, Lizy was just two weeks shy of her 13th birthday, which added an extra layer of poignancy to her loss. Not only did Julia and her husband have to learn to handle their own grief, but how to tenderly guide the remaining five children through the process of coping with their loss as a family and as individuals. Lizy's parents have focused on remembering her with joy, and preserving her place in the family by creating new traditions in her name, as well as maintaining old ones the family cherishes. Loyal listeners might remember Julia from season two, when her episode was entitled "Grieving with Grace". Welcome back, Julia, to "Bereaved But Still Me", you may have noticed that we've changed the name of the podcast since you were last here.

Julia Wagner: 1:45

Hi, yes, I have. And thanks for having me back.

Michael Liben: 1:48

It's always a pleasure for us to have you here and that's the truth. Maybe not all of our listeners have had a chance to hear your other episode. We'll be putting a link to that in our show notes. Can you share with us a little bit

Julia Wagner: 2:00

We have six children and three girls, three boys, Lizy would be 22 at this point. Our youngest is 11. Lizy absolutely loved the color pink. She loved lizards and music and spending time with the family. She loved humor, and would about your family and especially tell us about Lizy, always tell the worst jokes. But we would all laugh, of course, to make her happy.

Michael Liben: 2:26

It's been four years since you were on the program, Julia, how's the family doing now?

Julia Wagner: 2:30

They're doing really well. Everyone is growing. My goodness. They're all kind of getting closer to those adult years. All the girls are adults now, the boys are - youngest one is getting ready to leave elementary school, and they're all coping, they have their challenges. We all have our challenges still as we still continue even nine years later to navigate this path of child loss. But they're doing really well.

Michael Liben: 3:00

Do you see it in school? Do you see it in everyday life? Do you see your interactions with your friends? How present is that?

Julia Wagner: 3:06

It varies from child to child. For our oldest living, it's very present and she still struggles with the trauma with PTSD. But she's handling it very well. And she's able to be a really great support for friends who struggle with their own losses. So that's been a blessing as well as a struggle for her. Our youngest kids, their struggle, is that a struggle to remember her. And so they frequently talked to us about, you know, I feel like I don't remember, Elizabeth, can you tell me about her? And so it looks very different depending on the kid, but it is still very present.

Michael Liben: 3:50

Those who knew her and those you said were helping other friends with losses? Do they have friends who have suffered similar loss?

Julia Wagner: 3:55

Some of them have had friends that have maybe not similar as in siblings, but there are friends that have lost parents or grandparents. And there might be a friend or two that have a close cousin. Things like that.

Michael Liben: 4:13

Do you think they found something meaningful in their own loss that they can use that to help others and maybe that helps them as well?

Julia Wagner: 4:19

Absolutely. Absolutely. My daughter, who is in Arizona right now serving a mission for our church, she mentioned several times that one of the things that she has learned through the loss of her sister Elizabeth is the power of hope. And she has been able to share her what she has learned with many other people and various different circumstances, even if it's not dealing with personal loss, but in just difficult trials and circumstances and things that she's able To help share what she's learned and that power of hope. So they've developed these wonderful characteristics and values that they are able to integrate within themselves and then share with others and help others. And they do see that as a gift and a blessing to be able something positive, to be able to, to share and to kind of in a positive way give tribute to their sister who passed,

Michael Liben: 5:31

I find that to be the case with my children, not in the sense of helping people with loss, we're not dealing openly with other people's loss. But Liel had autism and was difficult around the house. And it's, autism is something you share with the whole family. And I found that my children grew up much faster. And on the one hand, we may have deprived them of some of their childhood. On the other hand, they're marvelous adults, they're thinking, they're caring. They look beyond the outward appearance of people, and they and they really get an insight for what people are made of. And I think that's special.

Julia Wagner: 6:08

Absolutely.

Michael Liben: 6:10

We know from your first appearance that Lizy was a very special young lady, tell us one of your favorite memories of her.

Julia Wagner: 6:16

There's so many to choose from, but my mind turns to a moment when she was probably nine years old or so. And she mentioned that she wanted to have a lemonade stand. I said that was fine. And I we started making plans about this lemonade stand and how she wanted to set this lemonade stand. We got all the supplies that she would need. And she decided that she was going to sell it for 25 cents a cup. And she was so excited to get her little stand set up and we went to make a sign, and she looks at me and she says, "Oh, by the way, Mom, I want to donate the money to the Children's Heart Foundation". Her younger brother had a congenital heart defect and she wanted to support him and other kids like him and donate the money from this lemonade stand to the Children's Heart Foundation. And so she did she was set up outside of our house and she made this big sign that said "Lemonade Stand - Donations and Sales go to the Children's Heart Foundation". And she sat out there for hours and hours and hours. And the neat thing was is she was only selling it for 25 cents a cup and I remember thinking how much is she really going to be able to donate and but just still applauding her efforts. And she was so sincere and she had her little Children's Hat [Heart] Foundation cap on and her little brother was out there for part of it. Her sisters joined her for part of it. And in the end, it was so neat to stand with her and we're, it like, we're counting up the money and it was just really exciting because the number just getting kept getting higher and higher from this little lemonade stand. In the end, she was able to donate over$100 to the Children's Heart Foundation. And she was so excited and she's just loved her family. She loved people. And she loved being able to help others and that is just one of my favorite memories of her was this desire she had and that moment when she said, "By the way, I want to donate this money to help other kids".

Anna Jaworski: 8:30

You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillme.com that's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben: 9:09

Julia, we know the holidays are a difficult time for many people, especially for families who are bereaved, can you tell us what your family has done to cope during the holidays?

Julia Wagner: 9:19

It is very difficult. And I do remember when we were first starting on this journey, trying to figure out what to do and how we were going to handle things as they approached and we were hit right off the bat with her birthday. She passed away and then two weeks later, we were facing her birthday. Well actually, even sooner than that, she passed away and the very next day was Easter. And we were kind of standing there staring at each other trying to figure out what do we do and what do we do with the children who are still expecting all of the joy that Easter can bring and the joy of her birthday, and yet reeling from the fact that she's not there. And I think one of the most important things was that we found out really quick that we needed to have a plan. And we needed to have a backup for a plan. And even if our plan was to do nothing that day, it was still a plan. And so having an idea of what we were going to do helped us be able to cope and navigate through those days. And so even for that very next day, our very loose plan, we were still figuring this out, because it was so soon. So we didn't have so much of a plan for Easter, because we were still in shock. But by the time we got to her birthday, the kids were asking, "Are we going to celebrate her birthday? What do we do?" So we came up with a plan. And for us as we go through the different holidays, for us, it's really important to include the children in making the plan and asking them, "What do you want to do to remember Lizy, how do you want this holiday to look like?" So for her first birthday we asked the children, "What should we do for her birthday?" And one of the kids was like, "Well, we need to have a cake". And I'm like,"Absolutely!" And one of the other kids is, "Well, what kind of cakes do angels like?" So we settled on angel food cake. So every year on Elizabeth's birthday, we go to the cemetery. And we sit down with an angel food cake and strawberries and we sing and share memories of her. And it's very simple. But that was all we came up with that very first year. And it's changed a little bit over the years. But that was our plan. And we can be flexible in the plan that we try to find something that we can agree on that will help us remember and share our love of her with each other.

Michael Liben: 12:08

What did you do later on, half a year later, it's Christmas, you had a little bit more time to plan

Julia Wagner: 12:13

As some of the other holidays started coming up and Christmas and things, we got to that point where we were all gathered together at Christmas, we're decorating. And of course, we're pulling out stockings and everything else. And even that first Christmas, it was still a bit of a shock. I think we were still - I feel like that first year of loss, you're just kind of going through the motions and everything almost feels like"Oh, I didn't think this was going to be this hard". And so we're pulling out the stockings and of course the question comes, "What do we do? Do we hang the stocking? Do we not hang the stocking? We can hang the stocking but to see it empty is heart wrenching."

Michael Liben: 12:58

Sure.

Julia Wagner: 12:58

And so we talked to the children, and we said,"What should we do?" I believe it was one of our kids who came up with the idea of let's fill the stocking with acts of kindness. And we're like,"That's, that's wonderful, we can do that". And that's something that we can give her and she would love. Going back to the lemonade stand. We knew that reaching out to other people and doing kind things and putting them in her stocking would be something that she would fully love and approve of from the person that she was. And so we started to, to do that. And it has become a yearly tradition, where every year, her stocking goes up and we start stuffing slips of paper in it. And on Christmas morning after all the presents are open, and we've had our celebration with all the kids, we get her stocking down and we sit together on the floor. And we read through all the acts of service that our family - and many others. We reach out and we ask other people to send in their kind acts and put them in the stocking as well.

Michael Liben: 14:06

That's lovely. Is there a way that we can put that in the show notes - how to contact you so that people who want to, even now, prepare and write you letters can do that now?

Julia Wagner: 14:16

Oh, yes, I would love that.

Michael Liben: 14:18

Good. Well put your email in the show notes and people will be able to send you acts of kindness. Many people don't know what to say to someone who's lost a child. What do you find comforting to hear during the holidays since you've lost Lizy? I know there's a lot of things that people say and they try to be very nice, and it's it's just not right.

Julia Wagner: 14:35

Yes, there are a lot of things that people say that are well meant, but do not come across the right way. Yeah, we've learned patience and some of the best things honestly, the best thing is just a hug. Quite frankly, I would prefer a hug than platitudes. "I'm sorry for your loss" is always okay to say, at least for me, but the most wonderful thing is when someone shares with me a memory, and if they don't remember her or if they didn't know her personally, if they ask a question about her, I'm very open about talking about her, it keeps her memory alive. And so I have a very wonderful friend from the very beginning, would send me messages and she would say, "If you want and when you're ready, what was Lizy's favorite color? What is your favorite memory of Elizabeth at Christmas time?", and give me an opportunity to share some of my favorite memories with her and the opportunity to talk about her. Another wonderful thing is, as I mentioned earlier, Elizabeth loved pink. She was obsessed with the color pink, she would wear all pink, she" bathe in Pepto Bismol if we let her. I mean she was, she loved that color. And so after she passed away, pink kind of became everything to us. And we lived for the sunrises and the sunsets. Because when they were those just gorgeous colors of pink, it felt like this hug from heaven. And just the other day, I went to this concert, and one of my friends at the concert leans over and says, "I thought of your Elizabeth today, the sunset was gorgeous, and so pink", and that just made my day to know that she wasn't forgotten and that someone was thinking of and remembering her. So sharing those moments and those memories are the best thing I feel like can be comforting during the holidays and any time.

HUG Info: 16:43

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website heartsunitethe globe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com for information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more.

Michael Liben: 17:22

We recently had a podcast with Dr. Marcy Larson, and she talked to us about losing her son Andy. Marcy was telling us that the hardest thing she had to endure after her son Andy passed away was the grief of her other children. How have your other children coped with losing Lizy?

Julia Wagner: 17:37

Well, it's been difficult, and we touched a little bit on it earlier, each one has had a different path and a different journey. And I think that is one of the challenges is that the experience, while being the same for all of us, it's different for each of us. And so I have one daughter, I mentioned that has PTSD and trauma, she found Elizabeth. And so she has been in not quite constant, but near constant counseling to help her cope with that. And she's doing very well currently. But that is something that she is going to continue through her life. We have another daughter who was at a friend's house, she was gone when Elizabeth passed, she struggles a little bit with separation anxiety, it was very difficult for her to leave us and go to Arizona, because that feeling of being away - Is something going to happen to the family while she's gone? And so she's working through that. And she's doing very well. She loves what she's doing and she knows that we are safe and we're great when we talk to her every week. And so she's handling it in a very positive way. And then our boys have varying you know, some boys remember her, our youngest boy was only 18 months old when she passed. So for him, it's more learning about her. And he misses what he could have had with her and frequently talks to us about, "I don't remember her, can you tell me more stories?" And so we sit down and we look through picture albums and we tell him stories and things so that he can feel like he has a memory and a knowledge of who his older sister was. The one thing though that they have all developed, I feel, is an increased sense of compassion for other people.

Michael Liben: 19:33

I can see how that would be. We've been talking largely about holidays so let's talk about Valentine's Day. I know you have something special that you do there, tell us about that.

Julia Wagner: 19:41

Yes, Valentine's Day is very special for our family. It all started when Elizabeth was 10 years old, and she came home from school with a flyer and it was about a father daughter dance and she was so excited to attend this dance, and it was a community run dance, and she handed me the flyer and asked if she could go. And I looked at the flyer, and at the time we we were a very young family. We had the three girls and at that point, we had five children. So our youngest wasn't born yet. So we're trying to navigate these five children. And she hands me this flyer, and the cost of attendance was not inexpensive. Especially because Daddy wouldn't be able to take just Elizabeth, he would need to take her younger sisters too. And I explained that to Elizabeth. I said, "It's going to be very difficult for your father to take all three of you". And she kind of nodded her head, and "I understand" and she walked away looking just very devastated. And of course, it ripped my heart out, I felt so bad. And a couple minutes later, she came running into the kitchen, hopping up and down."Mom, mom, mom, I have an idea!" And I was like, "Okay, what's your idea?" And she says, "Can we have our own Valentine's dance? And I looked at her and I said, "Of course we can". And so that began our Valentine tradition. And we decorated the house for a Valentine's dance she helped me make these cute little appetizer foods, and we made punch, and we turned on music. And that evening - oh, and we all put on our dresses and fancy clothes. And that evening, we danced all over the kitchen and ate party food and had an absolute blast. And we did that a couple more times. And then she passed away. And that first Valentine's day after she passed away, again came the question that kids came up to us and said, "What do we do about Valentine's Day?" And my husband and I looked at our children and we said, "What do you want to do? Do you want to have the dance? Or will it be too hard?" We had a family vote. And some of the kids said we want to have it but it's going to be really hard. And I said, "Yeah, it will" and they all decided that it would be worth it. That no matter how hard it was, and no matter how much we might cry, it would be worth it. And we started planning for the dance. And I kept thinking if only we had something that could be a representative of Lizy at the dance that we could dance with. And I went to the grocery store of all places, I was picking up food for the party and they had this box of giant stuffed animals. And sitting right on top with was this huge, pink lizard.

Michael Liben: 22:58

Perfect.

Julia Wagner: 22:59

It was perfect. And I almost cried right then and there. And I said a thank you prayer to God and I picked up this lizard and you know, bought him, and took him home. And he still, he sits on our bed and he makes an appearance every Valentine's dance as we go dancing around the kitchen with that lizard and he gets to dance, or she I should say, gets to dance with everybody. And it's just such a special way. And that first dance after Lizy passed it was so important to have that stuffed lizard there and they just hugged that lizard, and danced and soaked that little lizard with tears. And now that lizard, I guess it's not little, still get soaked with tears, but they tend to be more tears of joyous memories, than tears of sadness, like the first time.

Michael Liben: 24:00

It's beautiful. I, what I'm sensing here is that every tradition that you have stresses the word "continuity", that things don't stop with her absence. That things continue, perhaps modified, but they continue with her absence or despite her absence, so that the continuity of her life continues with you.

Julia Wagner: 24:19

Yes, and I think that's important. I think it helps all of us to heal, at least in our family. Every family is different. Every experience with grief is different. But for us to be able to heal and feel like she was still a part of our family, that continuity was so important. And anytime we asked the kids, the kids were almost like, "Well of course we need to still do it". And even though they would say,"It'll be hard", it was always decided - but it's worth it. We love her, we want to remember her, and we can find joy in that remembering.

Michael Liben: 25:02

Now you do a lot of things that are related to the holidays, in particular, because those are the moments when the family is most together and when her absence might be noticed the most. But are there traditions or rituals or things that other families might find helpful throughout the year? Something that we can all do? Do you have any suggestions there?

Julia Wagner: 25:18

Yeah, I think some of the things that we do just little things for us, you know, pink sunsets, and sunrises, that's something every day that we look for. Just anything that sparks that little moment. And at first, it would also spark tears. Now it brings more just a gentle smile to my face, the first flower that blooms pink in the spring, I just, you know, I usually take a picture of it, and makes my heart happy. So something small that might remind you of your child through the year. And then just other things. So this, the thing that we do at Christmastime with the stocking and the acts of service, we used to do it just in the month of December. And it's branched into something that we would do now all year long. And we have a box. And so if someone does something kind, and they think about it, they write it down on the slip of paper, and they put it in the box. And then when Lizy's stocking goes up, they move from the box into the stocking. And so there are several things that can be done throughout the year, to keep your loved ones close without dwelling too much in the heartache and the pain.

Michael Liben: 26:42

I agree, I would even argue that sometimes just a simple meal of food that she loved, something like that something simple. We can all do that sort of thing. And not everybody's gonna hang up a Christmas stocking, I'm sure we understand that. And not everybody celebrates Valentine's Day. But there are things that we can do throughout the year, that remind us of our children that are very important, even if it's just to sit around once in a while and tell funny stories.

Julia Wagner: 27:05

Yeah.

Michael Liben: 27:06

You know, the sweetness of the memory is what's so important. And it helps us keep the memories alive in a way that we want them to be alive. We want them to be with us. We don't want them to be with us and be sad when we want to be happy because we want to be happy with them.

Julia Wagner: 27:21

I agree completely. And I think it's important anytime when they enter into our minds, to take that moment to share, share that memory with with your spouse, or your children or someone else and take a moment to laugh over the funny moments and cry over the sad ones. And to keep that closeness and those memories alive.

Michael Liben: 27:47

Julia Wagner, thank you so much for joining us on "Bereaved But Still Me". It is always a pleasure to have you come to the studio. And I hope that you come by more often, maybe we'll see you again this year?

Julia Wagner: 27:56

I would love to, it's been a pleasure being here.

Michael Liben: 27:58

And that concludes this episode of"Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank Julia Wagner for sharing her experiences and advice with us. And I hope her family's creative ideas about honoring Lizy will inspire those of you listening. Please join us at the beginning of the month for a brand new podcast. I'll talk with you soon and until then please remember moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski: 28:20

Thank you for joining us, we hope you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" is a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at anytime. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".