A Christian Perspective on Grief by Suicide

Grief is a difficult topic to discuss but talking about loss by suicide seems to be even more challenging. How does losing a child by suicide affect your life? How can a person’s faith help them cope with the loss of a son by suicide? 

Faye and Carter Mayberry are the parents of Candace, Jordan, Jacob, and Ashton. Ashton died from suicide at age 21 on January 28, 2014. Since then, they have started a blog (ashtonslegacy.com), writing about what they have learned from their suicide journey.

The Carters have tried to inform themselves on risk factors, preventions, post-vention, and supporting others who are suicide loss survivors. They participate in a monthly suicide loss survivor support group.

In addition to their 3 living children, they have 8 grandchildren. They are trying to learn and grow together in love for God and for one another. They are here today to share their son’s situation with others, to promote understanding of suicide, and to provide support for others dealing with death by suicide by a loved one.


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Transcript

Michael Liben: 0:34

Grief is a difficult topic to discuss, but talking about loss to suicide seems to be even more challenging. How does losing a child to suicide affect your life? How can a person's faith help them cope with the loss of a child to suicide? Welcome to"Bereaved But Still Me" the podcast formerly known as "Heart to Heart with Michael", a program for the bereaved community. Our purpose is to empower our community. Today's program, A Christian Perspective on Grief from Suicide Loss. Here with us to discuss this are our guests Faye and Carter Mayberry. Faye and Carter are the parents of Candace, Jordan, Ashton and Jacob. Ashton died from suicide at age 21 on January 28, 2014. Since then, they have started a blog, Ashton's Legacy--Grieving with God's Guidance. Writing about what they have learned from their suicide loss and trusting God in their journey. The Mayberrys have tried to inform themselves on risk factors, preventions postvention, and supporting others who are suicide loss survivors. And to that end, they participate in a monthly suicide loss survivor support group. In addition to their three living children, they have eight grandchildren. They are trying to learn and grow together in love for God, and for one another. They are here today to share their son's situation with others, to promote understanding of suicide, and to provide support for others dealing with a loved one's death from suicide. Carter and Faye, thank you so much for joining us today.

Faye Mayberry: 1:52

Thank you for having us.

Carter Mayberry: 1:53

Thanks for having us.

Michael Liben: 1:55

Let's start by talking about Ashton. Can you tell us about him as a young child and through his adolescence?

Faye Mayberry: 2:00

Ashton was a pretty normal happy child. He, he was a little quiet, he had a hard time expressing himself from even when he was young, through, when he got to puberty, he started getting even more quiet and he just became our quiet boy. We just thought oh, some kids are are more quiet than others and that was him.

Carter Mayberry: 2:27

He was, I think almost universally well liked by other kids and teachers. Second grade, one of the teachers commented that she would make some kind of adult level humor, not, not in a, I don't know, negative way, but things that adults would understand and he would be the only one that would chuckle. He also liked to play games, any kind of games he, he wouldn't and he was very good at them.

Michael Liben: 2:56

Was he gregarious? Did he participate in sports with the other guys?

Carter Mayberry: 3:00

I wouldn't call him outgoing but he was, he liked to be with other people. When he was, I think in junior and senior in high school, several of the friends would get together and they they would eat at different families' homes for lunch. Some reason the, the cafeteria lunch at school wasn't up to their standards and so they, the parents would prepare a lunch for them and they would take turns rotating, you know, to the different homes and have lunch that, there and watching him interact with the other kids seem very normal and they would joke and laugh and he would tell some jokes and laugh at other people's jokes so seem to be very normal from what I saw. They played sports together. His best season was football. When he was a senior, they had a real cohesive team and were very successful.

Michael Liben: 3:58

Let's talk a little bit about how your faith treats children through young adults. Different religions have different ceremonies that help children transition from childhood to adulthood. So what is that like for you?

Carter Mayberry: 4:09

We are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and young men are ordained to the priesthood usually at age 12 and one of their responsibilities as a holder of the priesthood is to distribute the emblems of Jesus' last supper, something we call the sacrament, to the members of the congregation. They have other duties that are given to them as they get older but that's, that's the first one they start out with. And when they turn 16 they usually start blessing the emblems of the sacrament that the younger boys will distribute to the members of the congregation. Sometime between age 18 and the early 20s young men are encouraged to serve a full time mission and that's where they share the message of Jesus Christ with those who are interested in listening. Ashton served his mission in Fiji and young women, just as a side note also can serve at about the same age.

Michael Liben: 5:09

Is it common to go that far away?

Carter Mayberry: 5:11

Yeah, I started my mission as young man in Venezuela, one of my brothers served in Norway, one of my sisters served in Japan, one of our sons served in Spokane, Washington so not everybody serves that far away, but it is fairly common. There are about right now about 50,000 missionaries throughout the world so they serve serve all over the place.

Michael Liben: 5:35

When did you first determine that Ashton was having some problems that were concerning him? How did you handle the knowledge that something somehow was not quite right?

Faye Mayberry: 5:43

Well, the first time that we noticed that something wasn't right was when he was serving his mission. I thought that I knew how to spot depression. I've dealt with it in the past, and I thought I was good at at spotting that but his was different and I did not, I did not notice it in him because he was, just, he turned quiet. But we did find out on his mission, his mission president messaged us and and we actually talked to him about that he's not doing well. He was on his mission in Fiji, as, my husband said, and that's when we actually found out that yes, he did, he did have depression.

Michael Liben: 6:24

What are some of the symptoms that were recognized?

Carter Mayberry: 6:26

The thing that really clued us in was one of the mission rules was to send a letter home every week via email and so he was pretty good at that but they would make an actual phone call on Mother's Day and Christmas Day. So he started his mission in January of 2012. We spoke to him on Mother's Day, he had just barely arrived in Fiji and seemed to be doing well. You know, excited, nervous and all of that normal stuff. The next time we spoke with him on the phone was Christmas of 2012. We could see that he he was struggling, seemed like he was struggling emotionally, and Candace, his sister started typing messages to him on the, on the computer, you know, "How are you doing?" rather than, you know, talking to him verbally. He had an easier time expressing himself with writing than he did verbally and so he started opening up to her and and saying that he was, he was struggling with, with with depression and he actually started to cry in the call. We could see from the video that he was crying so that's when we, we really knew that he was having a hard time with depression.

Faye Mayberry: 7:43

Our family sings and we had sung something together. It was kind of a bonding thing and that's when he started crying so that's when his sister started messaging him instead of just talking to him.

Carter Mayberry: 7:54

He had kind of a speech, I don't know if you'd call it impediment, he would stammer. Sometimes when he was speaking, it wasn't really a stutter but he had a hard time kind of getting out what he wanted to say and I don't know if the other kids made fun of him. I'm not sure I never, never saw that. We had him see a speech therapist, and they didn't think it was severe enough and he didn't think it was either to have any ongoing therapy, but I don't know, did that somehow contribute to his difficulty in expressing himself? And did that contribute to that conversation that we had around on Christmas Day, when he did better in writing things out than he did and talking verbally about his feelings?

Anna Jaworski: 8:43

You're listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michaelatbereavedbutstillme.com. That's michaelatbereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. The opinions expressed in a podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben: 9:23

Let's talk a little about your religion and how it views suicide.

Carter Mayberry: 9:27

Our religion views mortal life as something that's sacred and should be protected. It's a precious gift from God. The Church teaches that it is not right for a person to take their own life however, only God is able to judge the person's thoughts, actions and level of accountability at the time of the suicide so we leave that that judgment to God. He knows what all of the contributing factors to the suicide and only He can judge.

Michael Liben: 10:01

I think that's very wise. Many people are quick to judge and I'm sure you've run into that. I'm gonna stretch here that's probably one of the things that makes it so much more difficult to talk about. Have you been faced with other people's snap judgment?

Faye Mayberry: 10:16

I know that it's out there, we've heard that other people have been judged. We have not felt judged. And I know how, how, like, we could be judged, but ours, in our situation, we have not felt that.

Carter Mayberry: 10:30

I've noticed that it's awkward for people to, I don't know, sometimes to be around us or, or talk about Ashton or whatever and so I'm just trying to give them some, some grace. I just put myself in their shoes. We have, I have a cousin whose son died from suicide about three years before Ashton did and I didn't know what to say to him and so you know, I have a lot of compassion for others who don't know what to say to us.

Michael Liben: 11:02

I can say that you're a much kinder person than I am.

Faye Mayberry: 11:10

I decided early on that people who, who did say things, or who did things that weren't quite helpful to us-

Michael Liben: 11:19

Yeah.

Faye Mayberry: 11:20

We decided that they're doing the best they can, and they wanted to help us and I know, we know that they did not mean to say something awkward or to be judgmental but they were doing something, and we just decided, that's the best they can do and they were trying to help us.

Michael Liben: 11:40

Oh, you may be two of the kindest people I've ever met, I've found that it divides into two groups of people. There are people who want to say something, and they dig down into their deepest well of pain to try and find a way to connect. And sometimes it's humorous. A lot of our listeners have dealt with heart disease in children and so before a child goes off to surgery, somebody will say something like, "I know exactly how you feel, my son had his tonsils out and I was a wreck". Okay, you know, if that's the worst thing that you can find in your life, good for you, and and I'm very okay with it. But then there are evil people who say the most horrible things like did you smoke in college? You're right. I suppose I should be kinder.

Carter Mayberry: 12:22

It's been a journey. You know, I can't say I've been perfect at it but I do feel like I'm kinder now than I was before Aston's suicide, trying to learn and grow from the experience. One of the things that really brought us a lot of comfort was we received just a ton of cards and letters from from people and one of them was from a couple that live in our community that we really didn't even know and it said,"I'm sure he did the best he could." And I can't describe how much comfort that brought to me that was just such a kind thing to say because I, I really felt like, we really felt like he did.

Michael Liben: 13:06

Did your son share your faith? And do you think that his faith was in some way influential in his act of suicide?

Carter Mayberry: 13:13

Yes, he did share our faith now as far as whether his faith influenced his act of suicide, not that we know of, but my perspective is that his broken mind thought that he had disappointed God and despite our efforts, and his church leaders who have met with him during his mission, and after his mission, saw a psychiatrist, he saw a counselor, we all tried to convince him that he had not disappointed God. But I, he, he was seem to be fixed on that perception so he was not only depressed, but we think he was delusional. We don't know exactly what his delusions were but delusions are fixed and no matter how much reasoning you try to do with them, he, he was fixed in that. And the other thing that worked against him is he had a difficult time expressing himself. And so the thoughts that he had, inside his mind were, they stayed in there and seem to grow and multiply, until they finally became overwhelming.

Michael Liben: 14:25

We touched on this a little bit earlier, who brought comfort to you after your son's death?

Faye Mayberry: 14:29

We're from a small town and we had a community, not just family around us, but a whole community because of my husband's career. The whole community knows us so I just remember on the day that Ashton died, the sheriff's deputy that was responded to the 911 call knew us. I knew her and she got out of her vehicle. I was standing on the porch and she came and gave me the biggest hug and I can still feel, you know the vest that they wear, that could not have happened in a big city where no one knows anyone. I really needed that at the time. We had people just pouring in, think we had the greatest support that anyone could ever want. People even donated to a scholarship that was given out for seven years that our high school $1,000 each year, that was a that was a big scholarship fund. It just finished this last year, and we're thinking about how to perpetuate that.

Carter Mayberry: 15:32

The small town where we live is about 2500 people,so everybody kind of knows everybody. I grew up there and and, you know, my, some of my ancestors settled that town and so we've been there a long time. Faye grew up in a town that's seven miles away and, and her father was the funeral director and so everybody knew knew them. And that's where my practice was, was in her town. And, you know, we kind of knew everybody. One of my friends put something on Facebook that said, "A village weeps". And that was just so touching to us to to have that. I don't know that phrase. One of the pharmaceutical representatives stopped by our medical office and said, when they learned about our son's death, they went to the store to try to buy a condolence card and there weren't any. I don't know, was that just a coincidence? Or is it because they were all bought out for us? I don't know. We sure feel like they were because we sent it

Michael Liben: 16:29

Sounds to me like they sold out for sure.

Carter Mayberry: 16:31

A ton of them. People brought meals, people came by for visits, thinking of the the visits, they seem to have been orchestrated by God because about the time we could sense that one visit was winding down, someone else would come by. For some people that might have been overwhelming for us. it was just what we needed. And some people would ask, you know, what can we do to help? And I think it was Faye that that said, this came up with this, that if you feel like you should say or do or write something, do it. One of our religious beliefs is in the Holy Ghost, the Holy Spirit, which guides us and in what we should do, and and we feel like the Holy Ghost was guiding people in what to say and do. We really felt like that was kind of God's hands, and His voice working through our friends and neighbors.

Faye Mayberry: 17:26

The reason I said that is because people would ask us; what do you need? How can I help you? And we had no idea what we needed. You know, it was so early on, we were just trying to survive and that's when we decided to tell them just follow the promptings you get. If you feel like you should call us do it. If you feel like you should bring something to us, if you feel like you should send a card, just do that.

Carter Mayberry: 17:52

God would know what we needed and He would help them to know what that particular person, you know, how they could use their particular talents or gifts to serve us. And He really, He really worked through them to, to bring miraculous healing and comfort.

Michael Liben: 18:10

Our experiences are very similar. The Jewish community works exactly like that for a whole week. Your neighbors move in and take over the kitchen and you don't cook, all you have to do is sit and receive guests. And it's really like that, you know, a guest or a bunch of guests will come in and they think they've planed out and as they leave, the next wave comes in. And as you said, it's, it's very, very healing. It's very, very comforting. I think it's the beginning of healing. I don't think it's the end but it's a very good way to start.

Carter Mayberry: 18:38

There was also a friend who had suffered from depression and anxiety. He started a foundation to raise money to study depression and how to treat it. It was very touching to us that that he did that.

Faye Mayberry: 18:50

He named it The Ashton Foundation.

Michael Liben: 18:53

That's lovely. How has your faith brought you comfort since you lost Ashton?

Carter Mayberry: 18:57

Faye and I, as part of our healing decided to serve a mission. We went to Lima, Peru, we were there for 18 months. This was from April of 2017 to October of '18. We wanted to care for missionaries who were like Ashton. And there were a lot of people who were trying to help Ashton when he was in Fiji and uh, he had a mental health advisor that he talked with. His mission president tried to help him. The other missionaries tried to help him. He had some very good companions, but we wanted to pay that forward. And so we decided to serve our mission in Lima. We also felt like we needed kind of a change of scenery, to do something different, to kind of get away. That was another motivation, but we went to Lima and provided some of that, I don't know, medical care and even some, I don't know, counseling missionaries who are struggling with depression as well, when that came up. I accompanied several missionaries home who were struggling from depression. One was psychotic. One had attempted suicide on his mission and so I accompanied them home just for their safety. While we were there, the church came out with a series of videos to support people who were suicidal or who had, who were survivors of suicide loss, and one of the church leaders, he is an apostle, modern day apostle, just like Christ had twelve apostles in the early days of the church he's an apostle for the church today, produced a video about suicide and it was very comforting for us. We had some 15-20 minutes with him privately, he said, I promise you in the name of the Lord, that your son is fine. He told us that three times: "Your boy is fine". I just can't describe the comfort that that brought to me.

Michael Liben: 20:54

Did that remove some weight, maybe guilt? Maybe something like, what have I done wrong?

Carter Mayberry: 20:58

When I came out of that meeting, I felt lighter. It was just just an amazing, wonderful, lifting, miraculous experience.

Faye Mayberry: 21:08

Well, my faith or has brought me comfort, in that I know that I am not alone in carrying my grief. My Savior, Jesus Christ, has already carried that for me and he's there for when it gets too overwhelming and I just can't feel it. I don't want to feel this heaviness anymore and I know that I can give it to him, and he can share it with me so it's not so heavy. He can make this burden of grief, lighter, and He has done it and I know that He will continue to do it when I need it and I'm so grateful for that.

Michael Liben: 21:45

We've often said on this program that grief shared is grief lightened. And it's interesting to both of you who have either used the word share or lightened, it's a really good example of how sharing grief can make the difference for us who have to still carry on.

Carter Mayberry: 22:02

in our church, when people are married, the phrase, "Til death do you part" is not used. The marriage is for time and all eternity. So Faye and I, if we're, you know, it's not automatic, but if we're worthy, if we keep the commandments and do our best we are, it's called "sealed" for all time and all eternity. And any children born to us, or if we adopted children, they would be sealed to us for time and all eternity as well. And that's one of the things that this apostle said to us when we met with him as well is that the power of the temple ceiling is real and so Ashton is ours through the eternity, and I, I can't describe or explain the comfort that that brings, but but it does. The other thing that brings comfort to me is Christ not only knows what we are feeling, but he also knows what Ashton was feeling when he was here on the earth and the fact that he took his own life, that was a mistake. He shouldn't have done that. However, Christ's atonement somehow is able to pay the price for that mistake that Ashton made, and I don't know how that works but I have faith that it does. We believe in a God who weeps when we weep and it's just comforting to me to know that he is there, feeling the grief with me and sometimes, I've told Him it hurts, and have felt Him say, "I know it hurts". I can't describe the comfort that that brings to me.

Michael Liben: 23:50

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Carter Mayberry: 24:31

One thing, a phrase that I've started studying in the scriptures recently is "waiting upon the Lord" and I, kind of a funny side note, "(The) Princess Bride" is one of my favorite movies and one of the characters, one of the characters in there is Inigo Montoya. And one of his, one of the things he says in there is,"I hate waiting" and,

Michael Liben: 24:59

That's his job in that movie, by the way is to wait. That's that's what he does.

Carter Mayberry: 25:04

And that, that kind of describes me. I hate waiting but I'm learning to wait upon the Lord. One of the speakers on a recent church meeting mentioned that, "waiting upon the Lord is a holy place to be". We don't just sit and do nothing, we still need to move forward but to wait upon the Lord is, is a holy position to be in and I just, I'm grateful for His help in helping me to be more patient. The other thing I wanted to comment, but one of the things for me as a father, you know, the father is kind of the protector and to have my son die from suicide at, early on, I felt like I let my son down, because I didn't somehow protect him from from that. As a physician, it was hard for me because I'm supposed to help people get better and I couldn't help my son get better. That was really hard for me early on but fortunately, that blow has been been softened, maybe partly by time and partly by knowing that there is only one God, and that's not me. And, you know, I don't control everything in the universe and so if that were controllable, He could have done it, but chose not to.

Michael Liben: 26:24

How could someone who's lost a child to suicide best be served by their faith? And how can they reach out to others in their faith to help them deal with their grief?

Carter Mayberry: 26:33

One of my band teachers when I was in school, she still lives in the community, she's 90 years old, but she came to the viewing, Ashton's viewing and she asked me, "How do people get through things like this without God?" and I said, "I don't know and I don't want to find out." So I don't know that was very comforting for me to hear. It's also comforting for me when people remember Ashton's birthday, when people remember the anniversary of his death, we call it his "angelversary". We also, it's very comforting when people share memories. When I think, some people are afraid to say his name. It's comforting for us to hear his name. When we've been on missions, people have tended his grave, and they send us pictures of what they've done, you know, they're there by the grave and that's very touching and comforting. My brother, Ashton was doing some work for him, and the digging out mesquite rooot, and he told us about that around the last"angelversary". And he saved that mesquite root, kind of in Ashton's honor, I just really appreciated that. People have said, "I'm sorry for your loss". Other people have said, "I don't know what to say". For me, that's been very comforting. Because what what do you say? What do you say to someone, to a parent who's lost a child to suicide? I mean, that those have been perfect things to say.

Faye Mayberry: 28:03

Well, you asked, Michael, about reaching out to others and helping them deal with their grief. That's exactly what we're trying to do. We have the big need to help others who have been affected by suicide and not just people in our faith, but anyone. And we realize we know how we feel. But we realize that not everyone feels the same way, and needs the same things to heal. So we try to sit, we listen, and we just try to be there for people who need us. We try to follow the promptings that we get on how to help people and what might meet their individual needs and just reaching out and helping others gets us away from our grief. Helping others is really the way we have found to soften our grief, knowing that someone else can be helped by what we have experienced, as hard and as that has been, there's something good that can come from our situation.

Michael Liben: 29:05

We've talked about that a lot. Also, that it's hard to say something good came from this or to say that there's something positive about it. These are positives that we wish we didn't have to know, these are lessons that we wish we didn't have to learn. But we do know them and we have learned them. And we can help. And while that doesn't equal the negative, it can ameliorate the pain. It can make us feel a little bit better about going ahead. We can bring our loved ones with us in this when we help other people. And I think you're right all the things that you've said all the things that people have done for you are things that at least in the moment, they will keep Ashton's memory alive. And by so doing, they will keep him alive, for them and for you and for the future.

Carter Mayberry: 29:48

Well said,

Michael Liben: 29:49

Let's close by talking about the blog and your plans for the future.

Faye Mayberry: 29:52

We wrote a lot early on in our blog. We had a great need to write it was just things were bottled up in side of us and we wrote and we wrote, we wrote, probably maybe for three or four years, and we don't write as much about our grief now, the things that are on our blog now are more about our mission and what we're doing but they all revolve around Ashton because we're here because of Ashton. We are in New Zealand right now, serving a mission for our church. We feel like we can help other young missionaries who are in Ashton's situation.

Carter Mayberry: 30:28

When we attended the meeting of the American Association of Suicidology, we learned about these peer support groups with other people who have lost a loved one to suicide. Somehow, we missed that, up until that point in it until I went to that conference. And that was four and a half years after his death, after Ashton's death, and so we found found out about it, we met the people, this was in Denver, and the people from Tucson were there, who led this group and so we met them and we started going to that that group. The first meeting was, was pretty tough, almost didn't go, but glad we went, we felt a lot of support - people there really get it. I mean, there are different types of support groups, loved ones, losing loved ones to different types of, of death, but it seems it seems like losing a loved one to suicide is, is different time there's different factors and so you need people who kind of know what you're going through. And so this support group was very supportive. We went from about June of 2019 until we left on this mission in December, we went every month. And then the pandemic was kind of a hidden blessing, because they couldn't meet in person and so they started going to Zoom meetings, and we were able to join them from New Zealand. And so the same people, the same facilitators, were there, and some of the same people that were there in the group have been there on this virtual group and so we've continued to participate with them. We also, we learned from that, that meeting in Denver, that it takes an average of, I think, four or five years for people who have lost a loved one to suicide to find out about these support groups,

Michael Liben: 32:24

Really,

Carter Mayberry: 32:25

and

Michael Liben: 32:25

Why'd it take so long. Why is that?

Faye Mayberry: 32:28

I don't know. I'm not sure. I think, Well it took us that long,

Michael Liben: 32:33

I think the first thing that you know, somebody from a hospital somewhere or or somebody nearby or just a neighbor who's heard of it, you think somebody will jump out, that'll be the first thing?

Carter Mayberry: 32:45

I would think so too, and I guess maybe that's kind of our crusade is to shorten the time for as many people as we can for survivors of suicide loss, so that they know that these groups exist. We live about an hour from Tucson, so we, you know, we've been driving up there once a month for these meetings. But the other thing that we'd like to do when we get back is to be kind of a first responder when there has been a suicide in our county, we like to go and just say, you know, we're here, we know, we've been in a similar situation ourselves, because of our son. This is a support group that if you're interested, and if you feel like it would be helpful, there'll be someone there that you know, and familiar face. And so we want to be, we want to help shorten that time, at least for as many people as we can, especially people who live physically close to us. The other thing that I'd like to do is, is be, as a physician, be involved in this American Association of Suicidology to see what else I can do to contribute to the to the field of research to help prevent, help those who are survivors and so forth. The title of the blog is Ashton's Legacy; Grieving with God's Guidance, and it's ashtonslegacy.com if you want the URL. We just hope that it reaches as many people as possible.

Michael Liben: 34:14

I think your story is very compelling. I think that you have come through the other side of this stronger than when you went in. I think it's one of the things that when we lose children is we find out how strong we really can be and there's no question in my mind that you both have come through, stronger, more focused, and I clearly can see that you're much much kinder than a lot of people I know, certainly more than myself.

Carter Mayberry: 34:38

I don't know if I made this up or if I read it somewhere, but "Any strength that you think you see in me is, is Him". It's, it's God. I have to give Him the credit. The more that I've tied myself to Him, the more the more strength I feel, and so maybe the only credit I can take is maybe submitting myself to to Him and, and His will and His strengthening power and resource. It's, it's Him.

Michael Liben: 35:07

I can think of no better way to end this episode of "Bereaved But Still Me", the podcast formerly known as "Heart to Heart with Michael". Again, I want to thank Faye and Carter for sharing with us how their faith has brought them some comfort after the tragedy of losing your son to suicide.

Carter Mayberry: 35:23

Thank you, Michael. I hope this was helpful to people who are experiencing suicide loss. Thank you to everybody behind the scenes it's helped this to happen as well. Appreciate it.

Faye Mayberry: 35:35

Thank you, Michael.

Michael Liben: 35:36

If you've enjoyed the program I'd like to invite you to be a patron. For a monthly pledge you can help us continue to provide free programming for the bereaved community. Just visit www.patreon.com/hearttoheart. Until next time, please remember that moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski: 35:54

Thank you for joining us, we help you have felt supported in your grief journey. "Bereaved But Still Me" is a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcast at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me."