The Multi-faceted Pictures of Grief in our Lives

When a good coach guides you through your grief, who is really helping whom?  Kendra Rinaldi discusses the mutual benefits of helping others.

Kendra Rinaldi is a grief and life transitions coach who has experienced grief many times in her life. Some of the most poignant moments were the tragic and sudden death of her sister in 1996, a miscarriage during her first pregnancy in  2006, and her mother’s death to pancreatic cancer in 2016. From her experiences, she launched a podcast called Grief, Gratitude, and The Gray in Between in March of 2020. She invites guests to share their journey and how they grew from that experience, many sharing about their grief after the death of a loved one and the tools they used in their grief process. She is also a volunteer at Journey of Hope Grief Support Center and is passionate about helping others who feel alone in their grief and provides grief care and support to the participants.

Helpful Links:

Kendra Rinaldi's website: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/ 

Kendra Rinaldi's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/griefgratitudepodcast 

Kendra Rinaldi's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/griefgratitudepodcast 

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Transcript

Kendra Rinaldi: 0:00

All these dreams and hopes and everything you had already made in your mind that did not occur. And that is secondary losses that occur in grief that are very, very common and sometimes take on actually the front seat of your grief

Michael Liben: 0:22

Welcome to the Sixth Season of "Bereaved But Still Me". Our purpose is to empower members of the bereaved community. I am Mike Liben, and the father of three children - Idan, Sapir, and Liel. Liel, my youngest daughter, was born with a heart defect and later she developed autism and epilepsy. Losing her at fifteen is what has brought me here to be the host of this program. Here with us today is our guest Kendra Rinaldi. Kendra is a grief and life transition coach who has experienced grief many times in her life. Some of the most poignant moments were the tragic and sudden death of her sister in 1996, a miscarriage during her first pregnancy in 2006, and her mother's death to pancreatic cancer in 2016. From her experiences, she launched a podcast called "Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between" in March of 2020. She invites guests to share their journey and how they grew from that experience, many sharing their grief after the death of a loved one, and the tools they used in their grief process. She also volunteers at Journey of Hope Grief Support Center and is passionate about helping others who feel alone in their grief and provides grief care and support to the participants. Kendra Rinaldi joins us today in an episode called "The Multifaceted Pictures of Grief in Our Lives". Kendra, thank you for joining us.

Kendra Rinaldi: 1:34

Thank you so much for having me, Michael.

Michael Liben: 1:37

Well, it's always nice to talk to a sister in arms as a podcaster one to the other. It's always a happy experience.

Kendra Rinaldi: 1:43

It is odd for me to be on the other side of the mic. And to be the one to ask the questions always.

Michael Liben: 1:49

Oh, it's great, because when it's done you go home.

Kendra Rinaldi: 1:53

True, true. No editing for me today.

Michael Liben: 1:58

I can't wait. Thank you for joining us. So we're gonna get very serious in about a half a second here. How did you first come to find out that your sister was in an accident?

Kendra Rinaldi: 2:06

I was 21 at that time, and I was living with my grandmother while I was going to college. I lived in California at that time. My sister lived in the Seattle area and was volunteering in a dance group. And I was about to leave house, I was waiting in the car for my grandmother to come out. We had a performance we were going to attend. And when she came out, she said my sister's host mom had called and to call her. Well at that time back in 1996 I didn't have a cell phone, you know those times you had to use payphone and calling cards...

Michael Liben: 2:43

Those are the things with the funny dials, right?

Kendra Rinaldi: 2:45

Yeah, those things. Yeah, those things thatyou wait brrrng. So when I arrived at the concert venue, I went straight to the payphone, and called my sister's host mom. And at that moment, she shared with me that my sister had been in a car accident, and that it did not look good. So from there, I just went in and told my grandmother and my aunt and that I needed to leave and go home because my calling card was not working properly and I needed to call my parents to Columbia, which is where they lived. Yep. So that that was how I found out. And then from there on, it was just two hours of trying to call, like a maniac back home to Colombia, and inform my parents about the accident, but they were not responding. And I was alone in my grandma's home or I was living. And in that in between of trying to call my parents to tell them about the accident was when then I got the call of my sister's passing. So I didn't really, yeah, so it was all like in a very short period of time I was alone. And that was yeah, a lot of feelings of helplessness in that moment for sure.

Michael Liben: 4:00

You know, I think in a way, it was almost better that you didn't get through until later because if you'd gotten through with partial information, everyone would have been out of their minds. You already knew. Yeah so...

Kendra Rinaldi: 4:13

Yeah, they knew. Although if I made sure there wasn't something interesting that happened, though, because in that, in that whole time of me trying to get a hold of them and that they weren't home what happened was that my sister in the group, she was in the dance group, she was it there was another girl that was also from Colombia that was in the dance group. So that girl called her parents to tell them of my sister's death. And her parents called my parents and got through first say "Our condolences" when they did not even know that their daughter had been in a car accident. So in that time period it was for so for them how they found out was in a way that was very tragic per se, because they didn't even know what had just occurred.

Michael Liben: 5:01

How did you manage your own grief while trying to comfort everybody else who was in that big circle?

Kendra Rinaldi: 5:06

Oh, wow. So I think at the beginning, that's the thing I don't know if I was managing, because of course, in that moment, you're just going through the motions. I got to Seattle to be there for the funeral being the first member of the family to show up, and like you said, comforting others. I felt that was my role at that moment. And it's something that just happens very organically, you don't even like you think of it, "Oh, let me let me be composed for this. People. No, it's, it just happens that you kind of take that role. So for my grief journey, the tools I felt worked best for me, were really being able to talk openly about my sister, it was very, very much a part of our life in our family and with our friends, we would talk openly about her, about what had happened, about the grief experience itself, and about the actual accident. And what really helped was also hearing all these stories that other people would share about how she had impacted their lives as well. And then the other tool I used was writing, because in that time, writing letters was something I was already doing, because I lived away from my family. Writing letters to her continued to be one of the ways I coped or managed my grief journey. So here was this 21 year old that that's kind of what I did. It was instead of writing "Dear Diary", it was"Dear Zorana, this is what happened today, this is how I'm feeling". Those kinds of emotions straight to her.

Michael Liben: 6:48

Well, you have anticipated my next question. I wanted to know more about your personal relationship with her. For both before and after, did you feel that you were still connected? Even though you'd lost her? And do you still feel connected now? Having lost her so such a long time ago?

Kendra Rinaldi: 7:05

I love that question because connection is something that I feel is so important. I feel that just like love doesn't end, I feel that connection doesn't end. So yes, I was really connected. We were only two years apart. She was short of being 19 When she died, we were very close, of course, being only two years apart and our other siblings being much younger than us, we had a very, very strong bond, of course with fighting included.

Michael Liben: 7:35

Sisters, sisters, sisters, not just sisters, all siblings do that. Yes. Yes, that's great.

Kendra Rinaldi: 7:44

Yeah, so that was our dynamic, but she was my person, my confidant as well. And we were each other's we were each other's person. So that did continue that relationship still continues. Here's 20 something years later, I have lost track of the what year it is even today. But but that that that relationship continues, and the love continues, and so I have children now. And they're familiar with it. Yeah, with their aunt Zorana. So we call her [...]. And so they've always known about her. And I, you know, I tell them also that we continue praying for her as well. So that's something that I've always encouraged them to do as well. Because once I'm gone, I want I want prayers to continue for her even when I'm gone, you know, so hopefully my kids can keep on that legacy. So-

Michael Liben: 8:40

Those prayers, they're there for her, but they're, I think, also for you. Yeah?

Kendra Rinaldi: 8:44

Absolutely. Absolutely. That's another way of feeling that connection for myself, right? For someone that has that spiritual dynamic or religious dynamic, and beliefs it is important for my own process, to say those prayers, it just makes me feel more connected as well.

Michael Liben: 9:07

Do you still write to her now? Do you still advise with her now?

Kendra Rinaldi: 9:10

I don't I just talk. I just talk. It's like, I just talk. I can just in my, yeah, in my brain. I can just be talking to her like it doesn't it no longer is on paper. I wrote poems too at the beginning of my grief journey to her or about my grief. So yeah, but not at this moment. It's kind of changed and shifted, as everything does.

Michael Liben: 9:35

I totally get that my father sits on my shoulder often telling me the worst jokes in the world. But that's why I loved him so much. And that's why I love him now. And he's got the time now to do that that he never had before. So he's always filling me up with you know, dad jokes are well named. That is, that's my dad.

Kendra Rinaldi: 9:55

It's like no longer am I needing a calling card. Right? I don't Need the calling card anymore to call my sister. I could just talk to her right now just like you can.

Michael Liben: 10:05

And she's always there.

Kendra Rinaldi: 10:07

Always. That's how I feel. Just like your dad being sitting on your shoulder with his dad bad dad jokes.

Michael Liben: 10:13

It's amazing that he has time for me but he always answers me. Which is the scary part.

Kendra Rinaldi: 10:20

It's beautiful. It's beautiful to continue that relationship.

Anna Jaworski: 10:28

You are listening to "Bereaved But Still Me". If you have a question or comment that you would like addressed on our program, please send an email to Michael Liben at michael@bereavedbutstillmecom. That's michael@bereavedbutstillme.com. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The opinions expressed in the podcast are not those of Hearts Unite the Globe, but of the hosts and guests and are intended to spark discussion about issues pertaining to congenital heart disease or bereavement.

Michael Liben: 11:09

Kendra, let's talk about your miscarriage. We learned at the top of the show that you had a miscarriage in 2006. And we know that was a very pivotal episode in your life. So tell us more about that. And were you working then? And how were you affected? How was your job life affected?

Kendra Rinaldi: 11:24

Yes, thank you. The miscarriage, the reason, part of the reason I feel that was so pivotal and hard for me was one, it was my first pregnancy. I worked with children at that time. And everyone already knew I was pregnant when I had the miscarriage. So experiencing that death was something that hit me hard. It was again one of the first times, it was the first time since my sister's death that I felt grief as hard again, and at this time it was also just the first time I was experiencing it with my husband and seeing him in that vulnerable aspect of himself. It was really hard not only because of our own loss, but the part of having to share the story. Every time somebody asked like, Oh, how's your pregnancy going? Because again, since I work with children, and having to tell them I had miscarried was hard, not just for myself, but the fact that I knew that that person was hearing that information for the first time. And it made it that I was kind of grieving with them once again, every single time I have to share that,

Michael Liben: 12:40

I get that. You know, it's not a competition, but we lost our first three attempts and the first one at five months. So everybody knew she was pregnant and then one day, it just wasn't there. And the next two were lost much, much earlier. So people, some people, didn't even know she had been pregnant, but it was a terrible thing. And for me, as for you, I think it was the the first time that I had experienced that kind of a loss. And I remember we went to a therapist for a while. And she said it's okay to grieve. And I hadn't thought of it that way because a baby hadn't been born. But it really is a loss. And you called it a death a couple of minutes ago. And I think that's something that a lot of people miss. It's a terrible, terrible moment. Did you agree?

Kendra Rinaldi: 13:22

All right, absolutely. Not everybody has the same experience, by the way. I've consoled others that have gone through a miscarriage, and they're like, oh, no, I'm fine. You know, I'm like, okay, like, just like -

Michael Liben: 13:33

That's what they told you.

Kendra Rinaldi: 13:34

Everyone's experience...Yeah. Well, no, this was somebody that was close. But her miscarriage had occurred in her second pregnancy. And for some reason, like, how it affected her was different than what my first pregnancy had been. You know, so I, it's different for everyone.

Michael Liben: 13:51

You went home to an empty room full of expectations. She went home to a child.

Kendra Rinaldi: 13:54

Yes. And so therefore, yeah, she had something to redirect her energy. we didn't. The part that I think that sometimes we miss and that we sometimes, like you said, maybe don't realize is that it's not only that you have lost or you know, experiencing the death of this child that you were going to have, but also the death of the illusion, all these dreams and hopes and everything. You had already made in your mind, that did not occur. And that is secondary losses that occur in grief that are very, very common and sometimes take on actually the front seat of your grief even more.

Michael Liben: 14:36

You were probably looking at cribs, you were probably thinking about carriages. Right? You had your eye on some really nice clothes for the baby, right? And then, suddenly, gone.

Kendra Rinaldi: 14:45

Names. You've already started talking about names everything. Yeah, it shifts everything. Yeah, it absolutely does. So yeah.

Michael Liben: 14:53

That's supposed to be, your first one is supposed to be grand right? And it didn't happen.

Kendra Rinaldi: 14:58

Yes. And that then ends up creating a ripple effect also later on because then, of course, when we got pregnant then the second time then that fear and those, though you know that dread is still there.

Michael Liben: 15:10

Every day, every day.

Kendra Rinaldi: 15:12

Yes, so...

Michael Liben: 15:13

Until you hold a baby in your arms every day is a gift. You have no idea what's coming.

Kendra Rinaldi: 15:17

Absolutely, absolutely.

Michael Liben: 15:20

I totally relate to that. I had a total of four. After we had three kids, we had a fourth miscarriage. So we could we could switch seats right now if you want to ask me about it.

Kendra Rinaldi: 15:31

Oh, absolutely. We could we just need a longer podcast. We don't mind. We just have to take you to mine.

Michael Liben: 15:39

I'll be there. Tell your listeners, I'll be there.

Kendra Rinaldi: 15:42

Absolutely.

Michael Liben: 15:44

Now I know that you've been a volunteer at Journey of Hope Grief Support Center. Tell me more about that.

Kendra Rinaldi: 15:49

Yes, if I can share a little bit of why it is. I started volunteering there, it was after my mom passed away, which was in 2016, she died of pancreatic cancer, it was a eight month process. And after her death, it just basically kind of landed on my lap, this opportunity to volunteer at Journey of Hope, which is a local grief support group here in the Dallas, Texas area. But these kinds of organizations are everywhere. This one's particularly supports families with children that are grieving. And I became a facilitator and started volunteering then. Little did I know that that experience was going to be a whole other tool for me for my own grief journey after the death of my mom. And of course, also the death of my sister and my miscarriage, it's like it brings up all these other grief experiences to the surface. So volunteering has been a gift for myself in my own grief journey as well. And I've just learned so much about grief in that process and people's stories and just how everyone just really navigates grief so uniquely.

Michael Liben: 17:10

We're going to talk more about podcasting later. But one of the things that I found was that doing a podcast attempting to help others was secretly or not so secretly helping me tremendously. Did you find that after you had worked with people in grief support, and then found yourself grieving, that the direction of who's helping whom sometimes gets a little lost there?

Kendra Rinaldi: 17:32

Oh, I think that that's the case always when you're serving. Anytime we serve others, regardless of how it is we serve, we do so much more for ourselves in that transaction, the person giving is the one that's receiving the most, I feel.

Michael Liben: 17:50

But I agree with you. And I think it's a totally selfish thing. But it's a wonderfully good thing.

Kendra Rinaldi: 17:55

Yeah, it may, it's made to it's meant to feel good so we do it more.

Michael Liben: 18:01

It's a it's a win win, because we like to be helped. And if helping others as a way to be helped, well, then I'm in, right?

Kendra Rinaldi: 18:10

Yes.

Michael Liben: 18:11

And it always seems to land on the right people. I'm not speaking of myself at all, but I'm speaking of you and other people I've spoken to on this program. The people who I talk with who help other people tend to be really, really good at empathy, they tend to be really good at sharing and losing that directional connection that goes both ways.

Kendra Rinaldi: 18:29

In the aspect of grief, for example, what I realized as I was facilitating these groups, is that people a lot of times when they've just had a grief experience, when people tell them, "Oh, I know what you're going through", or"I'm sorry for your loss", sometimes those words just kind of don't, they don't connect to that, because they don't, that person does not know what they're going through, right, and has not experienced that loss. When they're in a setting in which others have experienced similar losses. It gives them that connectivity, right, they connect and they know that they're not totally alone in their grief journey and that others are going through something similar. And that I think is also another big part that helps in these kinds of communities in which people receive this grief support, or like we were talking before, even just in the podcast component when somebody's listening to someone's story, they don't feel so alone even if the person has not experienced the same loss, they've experienced loss and therefore can relate in some shape or form to their loss.

Michael Liben: 19:41

If you've enjoyed listening to this program, please visit our website heartsunitetheglobe.org and make a contribution. This program is a presentation of Hearts Unite the Globe and is part of the HUG Podcast Network. Hearts Unite the Globe is a nonprofit organization devoted to providing resources to the congenital heart defect community to educate, empower, and enrich the lives of our community members. If you would like access to free resources pertaining to the CHD community, please visit our website at congenitalheartdefects.com. For information about CHD, hospitals that treat CHD survivors, summer camps for CHD families, and much, much more. Welcome back, we're talking with podcaster Kendra Rinaldi. She's a podcaster. She's a grief coach. She's an all around really nice person. So Kendra, tell us about how you got into podcasting, something that everybody seems to be doing now.

Kendra Rinaldi: 20:34

Right? Isn't it interesting? It is just such an amazing platform to be on and so supportive, even just being here with a fellow podcaster of support in this journey of sharing through podcasts. The reason I got into creating podcasts, I wanted to have a platform of sharing people's stories. And partly, it came back to this part of myself of being so curious to people's journeys, having volunteered at Journey of Hope and hearing people's stories there, I knew there were more stories I wanted to hear. I just started asking friends like, "Oh, could you tell me what tools you used to navigate your grief?" Yeah. And so initially, initially, I thought I was going to have it be more like Facebook Lives or things like that. But then the podcast kind of just came naturally. And, and as I was telling you, when we were communicating before with even through Facebook messenger that I would leave you voice messages, because I'm like, I leave that voicemail messages because I'm a podcaster for that reason, and not a blogger, you know, I'm not.

Michael Liben: 21:43

And that's why I called you my sister podcaster. Because I totally, I hate typing, especially on a phone where you have to make it up. I hate it. You said something remarkably interesting just now. And you said, you did a podcast to help other people. But then you said I wanted to hear stories. So it is kind of self reflexive. I hope with all my might, that I'm helping somebody somewhere. But I know I'm helping me I need to hear these stories. I want to hear your story and everybody else's story. I need to know that I'm not out there alone. And I've been doing this for five and a half years. And you know what, there's no shortage of stories. I thought we did this in three years. And surely by the end of five, I thought I was done. Here we are. We're still here.

Kendra Rinaldi: 22:23

Yeah. And then there's so many stories and and we were talking about about it right before people relate to something in someone's story.

Michael Liben: 22:32

Exactly, exactly.

Kendra Rinaldi: 22:33

And and that I feel is just so important. And it was birthed during COVID time. So it was perfect, because even more so when people were feeling so isolated and alone to be able to connect through these podcasts and these stories was just so pivotal for myself, as well as for the guests.

Michael Liben: 22:54

Also, I think it's much more personal than say radio or television because you can listen to a podcast anywhere by yourself, and someone's talking directly to you. It's a very personal moment and a time when people were craving that personal connection because we're all locked down.

Kendra Rinaldi: 23:08

Yes, yes, absolutely. Yeah, you do feel like you know the person you are listening when you're hearing their story. My dad is my number one fan. I'd say he's probably heard all my podcasts. And some sometimes he calls me right after he's heard an episode and he wants to know more about the guest. Like he's like, and so where do they live? Like he really he knows. It's like my...

Michael Liben: 23:31

My sister does that I love her. She writes me an email after every single one.

Kendra Rinaldi: 23:35

Oh, I love it!!

Michael Liben: 23:35

She could call me. But she writes me an email - I loved it. I learned so much here. Your guest was this, your guest was that, it's great.

Kendra Rinaldi: 23:40

Oh so wonderful. It just it kind of is those little taps on their shoulder, right, that we're doing the right thing, we're in the right direction when we get those confirmations. So that's how I felt with the podcast.

Michael Liben: 23:53

Which by the way leads me to my next question. One of the things that we've learned here on this program was everyone talks about post traumatic stress. But a couple of years ago, I was at a convention I learned about post traumatic growth, which means sometimes after a traumatic experience, we change, we grow. This podcast for me is an expression of that. How would you say that that's helped you with your grief and helping others with their grief?

Kendra Rinaldi: 24:17

Wow. Well, the name of my podcast is "Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between". And that part of gratitude comes alongside growth with that. We don't just all of a sudden just are grateful for having gone through something hard that it's not you know, it doesn't just happen like that. It's not just snapping of fingers. There's a lot of gray in between. And within that gray in between there's a lot of growth and I feel that things happen for a reason and even if we never know the reason and we may never know the why something happened and we don't have to sometimes know we can just hold on to if we have that aspect of faith hold on to the faith of knowing that something happened, and that there is a wisdom behind that. But just that growth that happens within that process is beautiful, I think is part of the nature of a species that is living and breathing, you know, and happens to you. Right? Right.

Michael Liben: 25:19

You're absolutely right, sure. I've said this a billion times before, and I'll say it again, human beings are hardwired for happiness, we want to feel good. So when the world throws us a curveball like that, we want to work hard to work out of that some people need a little help getting out of it. That's true. And that's where people like you come in. But we want to help others, others want to be helped. There is no one's gonna say, "Don't help me". Whether they know it or not, they may say, "No, don't help me". They may put out those words, but they really mean,"Please help me".

Kendra Rinaldi: 25:49

I personally feel like you asked me before, if that connection still continues with my sister. Now I know 20 something years later, and it does. And I still cry about her not having her I even. And I of course, I call a cry about my mom, as well. And with my miscarriage, you know, even mentioning it when I mentioned it to my kids, the first time that they would have had a big brother or sister that was also just reliving that experience. But it is something that we carry with us, but knowing that we can walk alongside others that have been through something hard, and that who we are now is partly because of something we went through. It's comforting, per se, like not that we would have wanted to go through something that hard, right, but it is -

Michael Liben: 26:39

Yeah, we need to clarify that. Yeah, I don't have gratitude for having had losses, I should have gratitude maybe for coming through it, I haven't finished it. It's not ever going to leave me it's not ever over. But I have gratitude that I feel now that I can stand on it and hold it and keep it with me and look at it and not break up. I'm painfully aware of its meaning. I'm painfully aware of the loss. And yet I can still get up in the morning and go to work and I can get out and I can appreciate the sunshine and the birds. It's all there. And I'm still who I was, but I have been changed by it for sure.

Kendra Rinaldi: 27:17

Yes. And you know, you just said something right there. I appreciate the sunshine and the birds. That's the part of gratitude that I believe helps us at least get our feet out of bed in the morning. It's again it's not being grateful that this happened is being grateful for other things within our day to day life that help us just move forward with it. And again, it doesn't leave our side. You think of your daughter every single day, every single day. It's impossible not to. Yet in that accompaniment of her and her grief being part of your life, you can still see a sunrise, see a sunset, hear the chirping of the birds and feel grateful for those little experiences and that helps you move forward with your grief. Kendra, I'm so glad you were able to join us on this episode. Thank you again. Thank you!

Michael Liben: 28:12

One last thing before we go out, tell us how we can find you on the web and how can people access what you have to give them.

Kendra Rinaldi: 28:20

The best way to find me would be just going to the website and then from there all the links to all the places would be. It's "Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between". Or you could go to kendrarinaldi.com and then that can also take you to the website link of the podcast. So either way, kendrarinaldi.com or "Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between".

Michael Liben: 28:43

That sounds simple enoug, I hope everybody takes advantage of that. Please check out Kendra's website, I think you will find it more than helpful. That concludes this episode of "Bereaved But Still Me". I want to thank Kendra for sharing her experience and her wisdom with us. Please join us at the beginning of the month for a brand new podcast. I'll talk with you soon but until then please remember moving forward is not moving away.

Anna Jaworski: 29:15

Thank you for joining us, we help you have felt supported in your grief journey. Bereaved but Still Me" is a monthly podcast and a new episode is released on the first Thursday of each month. You can hear our podcast anywhere you normally listen to podcasts at any time. Join us again next month for a brand new episode of"Bereaved But Still Me".